Dig to survive

[TwoDo]

Question about seeds. Well, two actually! How should I store them? Will they be viable after the date that is stamped on the packet?

Seed merchants have minimum germination rates - so many per 1000 have to germinate in order for them to legally sell the seeds. The level varies depending on the seed type but 90-95% is a typical number. The germination rate drops as the seeds get older but most varieties are good for two or three years. Cucumbers, marrows etc are good for five or six years.

The number of seeds that sprout matters a lot less to the amateur gardener than to professional growers who need to make a living from the crop - but the rules are set for the professional growers. In fact the EU has a list of "official plant varieties" and it is illegal to sell the seeds of vegetable varieties which are not on the list. It is a long and expensive process to get a variety listed which has resulted in many varieties being dropped from catalogs. This is why the companies offering so called heirloom seeds (in reality many are just formerly common seeds not on the EU approved list) ask for donations or just flout the law.

Anyway clearly the seed companies have a legal obligation to minimize the use before date as well as a certain profit motivation to get you to purchase a new packet every year. But you can take the "Use By" date with a grain of salt, yes older seeds have a lower germination rate - however if you want 40 cabbages and plant 100 seeds out of the thousand or so left in the packet what does it matter?

For storage there are three things you need to consider: variations in temperature, high humidity and light. The best seed storage is in a dry place at a constant cool temperature. From that perspective a greenhouse is a terrible place to keep your seeds - high humidity and massive daily temperature fluctuations. Best place is under your bed or in the cellar in a kilner jar. A less than optimal storage usually just means a lower germination rate thats all.

If you can get the humidity down below 6% you can deep freeze most seeds and they will keep for 100's of years. This is what Kew is doing with their seed bank. I am experimenting with putting some by this way. It is not too hard all you need is a Kilner Jar, a cheapo reptile humidity gauge (about £3 on ebay) and some Silica Gel dessicant (also not expensive on ebay). Put all three in the jar, wait till the dial hits 6% and then bang the lot in the freezer still in the jar. Henceforth I intend to do this with the remnants of every years seed packets so that I have a supply to hand for future years and to distribute in the local community. Note: Kew actually do use Kilner jars - I took a tour of the seedbank one time - and they said after extensive tests Kilner type canning jars were the best seal they could get.

Also I, like some others here, practice seed saving. The art of letting some of your stock go to seed and saving that for future years.

Seed Lifespans: http://www.allotment.org.uk/vegetable/g ... e-life.php
http://www.hillgardens.com/seed_longevity.htm

[Hermit]

I'd like to get in a good stock of unopened packets - trying to get the longest 'Plant Before Date' that I can. I am hoping that storing in them in optimum conditions (if feasible) will elongate their lifespan. But I don't know what optimum conditions are!

This site is talking about storing collected seeds but the principle would be the same http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/Pro ... px?pid=675

Store in a refrigerator at 5°C (41°F) until required. Most seed will remain viable in this way for many years

[itsybitsy]

Thanks Twodo. Quite a lot to digest there. Maybe a two-pronged approach would work? Some in a nice wooden box under the bed, and others in the freezer in the Kilner jars? I assume that you put in the seeds, the humidity gauge andthe gel, then seal the gar and wait for the humidity to hit 6%? Can you store more than one variety in each jar, as long as they are separated in envelopes?

[TwoDo]

Thanks Twodo. Quite a lot to digest there. Maybe a two-pronged approach would work? Some in a nice wooden box under the bed, and others in the freezer in the Kilner jars? I assume that you put in the seeds, the humidity gauge andthe gel, then seal the gar and wait for the humidity to hit 6%? Can you store more than one variety in each jar, as long as they are separated in envelopes?

Yes you can store more than one variety in the jar. The seeds do not care. You can remove the humidity gauge and the gel if you wish. Also the gel is reusable - get the "Indicator" type. It will turn from pink to green when it has absorbed all the moisture it can. Then you can just pop it in the oven at a low heat and drive out the moisture and use it again. Instead of a wooden box under the bed I suggest a kilner jar with a small packet of dessicant as it would keep the moisture level at a lower and constant level.

BTW when time comes to use the deep frozen seeds. Let them come up to room temperature before popping the seal. It is considered a bad idea to hit frozen seeds with a blast of (to them) super hot and damp air.

[itsybitsy]

OK, so I can remove the gauge and the gel and then bang the lid on and put in the freezer?

[TwoDo]

OK, so I can remove the gauge and the gel and then bang the lid on and put in the freezer?

Well yes and no. Here's how it works. When the Gel is in the jar the seeds and the Gel will equalize to the same moisture content. Since the Gel is dry and the seeds are damp this means the seeds give up their water to the Gel. However the seeds will absorb moisture if they are dryer than the air. Really there is little difference in moisture absorbing and emitting ability between the seeds and the gel. They both go to equal moisture levels.

So, once the seeds have equalized, if you open the top and take out the gel and the gauge you will also get a big inrush of moist air. Now this does not matter so much if you have a lot of seed mass in there (a quantity of beans for example) as the incoming moisture will just be absorbed by the beans in exactly the same way as the desiccant gel did and it will raise their moisture content only a little bit since they are already pretty dry. However if all you have in the jar is a few packets of tiny onion seeds then they will have to absorb the moisture inrush themselves and this will easily raise their moisture level above 6-10% and hence when you freeze them they will die.

What I sometimes do is get the humidity where I want it with a larger packet of gel, open the top, pull out the gauge and the gel and pop in a small packet of gel like the one you get with a new camera or computer sometimes (you can re-use those by heating them but they do not indicate). This absorbs the moisture from the air inrush and ensures the gauge and the bigger packet of gel are recovered for re-use.

Another thing to be aware of is that it can take weeks for the humidity to settle if you have a lot of seeds in the jar. Also you should put the seeds in paper envelopes so the moisture can get in and out. If you store them in their foil envelopes the moisture cannot equalize and they will not be dried properly.

[jansman]

This is very good information, most useful.
However, there is another take on this. IMO gardening (for food particularly) is a learned skill. You have to learn and then practice, practice and practice some more. For me, my garden is something I have always done. It is one of those seasonal things that comes round like sweeping the chimneys and the start of the fishing season.
There is an idea it would seem, that you can store some seeds and if the world collapses they can be fetched out, and " Hey-Presto!" There's your groceries.

The garden is a cyclical entity really. Right now we are eating ( last seasons sowings) leeks, broccoli, cabbage/kale, stored parsnip, beet,and carrots. There are the salted runner beans and the salads in the tunnel. It takes planning, and you have to 'live' with the garden.

Sorry if I sound a bit stroppy, but If we really are to use the garden as a real food-provider, then this is the mindset needed. At this time , I am dividing my working week between my acre of land, and paid work. The planning is paying off, and can be done at any scale. Take those stored seeds, get out there and grow 'em!

[TwoDo]

Sorry if I sound a bit stroppy, but If we really are to use the garden as a real food-provider, then this is the mindset needed. At this time , I am dividing my working week between my acre of land, and paid work. The planning is paying off, and can be done at any scale. Take those stored seeds, get out there and grow 'em!

Agree 100%. Gardening is a skill and it takes practice. IMHO a prepper who is not now laying in a garden (even a window box, raised bed or a guerrilla garden if no space is available) is doing themselves a big disservice. It simply will not be possible come SHTF to suddenly decide to put in a garden and expect to be successful at it. As I recall, there was one poster here who was offered a patch of derelict space for a garden by the landlord but was disinclined to take it because once the garden was built the area would just be taken back by the landlord. I remember thinking at the time that, given no other alternatives, I would probably have taken that deal. The landlord may well get the land in the end but I would be able to take my skills and knowledge away with me.

For me the long term storage of seed is intended to mitigate the situation in which the entire country gets the victory gardening bug all at once. As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, when that happens I expect the supply of seed to disappear. Then even with an established garden and skillset, if I am expecting to purchase seeds in the spring as per usual, I may not find any available. An additional goal for the store of seeds is to be able to supply my neighbours (I live in a small village) with seed so that I am not the only guy in the area with a food source.

[redskies]

REALLY long term seed storage - http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... _seed.html



I wondered about creating a seed store just by putting the seeds in a waterproof container and burying them a few feet down. Constant temp, dark, all the things seeds need to survive

[itsybitsy]

This is very good information, most useful.
However, there is another take on this. IMO gardening (for food particularly) is a learned skill. You have to learn and then practice, practice and practice some more. For me, my garden is something I have always done. It is one of those seasonal things that comes round like sweeping the chimneys and the start of the fishing season.
There is an idea it would seem, that you can store some seeds and if the world collapses they can be fetched out, and " Hey-Presto!" There's your groceries.

The garden is a cyclical entity really. Right now we are eating ( last seasons sowings) leeks, broccoli, cabbage/kale, stored parsnip, beet,and carrots. There are the salted runner beans and the salads in the tunnel. It takes planning, and you have to 'live' with the garden.

Sorry if I sound a bit stroppy, but If we really are to use the garden as a real food-provider, then this is the mindset needed. At this time , I am dividing my working week between my acre of land, and paid work. The planning is paying off, and can be done at any scale. Take those stored seeds, get out there and grow 'em!

I do garden. I'm not in the fortunate position of having a massive piece of land, and even if I did I don't have a huge amount of time to cultivate a big plot, or even an allotment. Therefore I grow what I can comfortably tend to. Last year was a washout, so I try again this year. I'm not just buying up seeds on a whim to store in the event of a world food-chain collapse. But I see no harm in storing extra than my current requirements.