How will you fight crowds.....

[bettersafethansorry]

No matter how much you have would your natural urge be to go and get what you can with what ever money you can.

(tesco are not smart enough to know that the scrap paper we use as money wont be worth jack in a true SHTF sit)

I think i would go out trying to buy more but 90% of people will be grabbing bread and stupid shit where as i would be straight to the spart price oats and porridge etc.

-M

[Plymtom]

No matter how much you have would your natural urge be to go and get what you can with what ever money you can.

Needing the toilet is about the only natural urge I wouldn't want to go against in that situation, I'd bunker down, its similar if you were a bug out proponent, you've either got what you need or can hopefully cope without it, the photo is quite mild, the scenario we're imagining here would be dangerous I doubt people would be queing to pay once they've had a brawl to get the items they think they need, hell I'm biased there's no doubt about it.. I go early to avoid crowds in good times, I'd have stuff to do if things were going south like filling water containers, rearrange furniture, and gathering information, from radio, TV, and by looking at and listening to what is going on nearby

[grenfell]

No matter how much you have would your natural urge be to go and get what you can with what ever money you can.

-M

I think that would be my idea if I could get in as early as possible and without too much risk. My reasoning there is that firstly as you say all that carefully hoarded money could become worthless very quickly so best to get something for it , secondly there's the oppertunatey to top up ones supplies and of course acting at least like the rest of the population is a form of camouflage , I wouldn't want to advertise I've got a full pantry in that sort of situation.

[Arzosah]

Some really interesting points ... as far as going out to get *some* stuff - I might go to my little local convenience store and get some bits there - I wouldn't go into a scrum, but doing a bit of local shopping so I can be seen to shop, that makes sense. And yes, doing it with cash.

[PreparedKent]

I've got at least 30 days of food and water.... wouldn't go anywhere until its ran out so I would bug in until my cupboards were bare.

I'm planning on extending my preps beyond 30 days so if SHTF hopefully I should be able to sit tight until all the unprepared kill each other off.

[ojiu0u4]

Hi,

I guess it depends when we measure SHTF, but if it is considered to be the point where the dam of public consciousness breaks to a high enough extent that it causes a rapid snow ball panic response in the ones who previously were not shopping until they saw everyone else queued up at the petrol station. At that point in a context of a news story / media reporting imminent doom for an extended period of time (not just a threatened petrol strike), at that point I fully expect the crowds will make a pack of hyenas tearing a young deer limb from limb look positively refined, kind and sophisticated. I fully expect the unprepared to kill and attack without hesitation once the penny drops in the collective consciousness that they and their loved ones are facing starvation. They will quickly bind together with more impoverished areas going on the hunt in targeted break ins of richer houses looking for food, they wont be looking for PS4s and Xboxes or flat screens. Expect them to be carrying kitchen knives, screw driver, hammers, clubs / bats and they will use them, and there are twenty of them, angry, scarred and hungry, desperate and more than up for having someone to blame and exact revenge on for their situation as manifested in the well off with big houses. They will come in and they will kill. Unless you have the means and will to commit mass self defense and respond in kind as permitted within the law when using lethal levels of force as the only way to protect yourself from clear and present mortal danger to your and your families lives. If you could not, would not or cant engage a gang of twenty or so looters to stop them or use enough force to make them go away for long enough that you can escape, and not attracting more people in the process from the noise of your efforts to defend yourself swelling the crowd to fifty or even hundreds. The corpses are pilling up feet thick now. Really how much longer are you going to carry on, stay awake for, they just keep coming, surely this lunatic dug in defending his house must have a mountain of food, lets come back when he is sleeping, and if we cant get the git, lets syphone some petrol grab that milk bottle and show him who boss is.

The point is, I think it is impossible to fight of a large determined crowd hell bent on attacking the location where you are. Even if you were SAS with your squad of four, trained and hard as nails, they would still be overwhelmed, presumably this is why the SAS focus on evasion rather than engagement when covert. And that is all I think we can do, hide, evade, engage as last resort to get the space to run and carry on evading and hiding.

It makes you wonder whether a slow drawn out collapse over several years causing a slow run down of supplies but without rapid drop in population is not less / more challenging to preserve supplies / protect against looting in slow move towards WROL. As opposed to major lethal air borne viral pandemic which could overwhelm the global population in less that four weeks, crippling the health (and sanitation) systems causing rapid population decrease through primary disease and secondary infections as sanitation collapses under the volume of corpses. The second I think is a lot more survivable than the first when considered in the perspective of a pepper, supplies and how to handle looters.

I think looters are the most significant challenge that we will almost certainly have to deal with when they start going door to door. And then all you can do is run but on this tiny island of 65M there is no where to run to.... until that population number has dropped by a lot and the quicker that transition the likely the lower the level of base looting and rioting. If this god damn awful day does ever arrive and I pray it doesnt and I am a paranoid nut job and was wrong about it all, but if it does, I also pray it happens very quickly with a very high death toll - then some of us might just have a chance of surviving long term, but if it is a slow swirl down the plug hole then I think it in unlikely many will make it and fall at the hands of their fellow human clubbing him to death to gain a small amount of food or water.

I know it is all quite depressing, but I have a very low view of how modern human society would react and how it would turn on itself and how quickly and nasty it would get.

[bikerjoe83]

I know it is all quite depressing, but I have a very low view of how modern human society would react and how it would turn on itself and how quickly and nasty it would get.

It's not depressing but a very real possibility.

The only thing I'm not so sure of is the more impoverished areas clubbing together for targeted thievery etc. My opinion is that the type of people who we would imagine all think the same low-level train of thought i.e. ggrrr let's go rob that posh house, would be the first to fight each other i.e. ggrrr you've got a bigger stick than me, I want it. On the less-desirable housing estates (I unfortunately live on the very edge of one - didn't realise it 'til I moved here), the cavemen who think they're proper hard thugs compete for reputation. They smash each other's windows in and fight in the street, over what?? Drugs probably, or just simply to look the harder man. If SHTF, they would simply growl at each other and fight to be the top man, like you'd get if you put 100 chimps in a cage who had never met before.

They would at first be most interested in expensive stuff, stuff they can flog on Facebook when the power comes back on. It would take this level of society a long time to realise, or believe, that the power isn't coming back on and the risk of starvation is very real. I reckon before that they would start crapping themselves - once all the perishables have gone they'd be left with tins and probably no working tin opener, candles but nothing to light them with, gadgets with drained batteries, cars with no petrol, no fridge to keep the cider/lager cool in. Once all the alcohol has gone, and drugs can no longer be sourced, the less desirables would turn to mush, sitting in a pile of their own sh*t not knowing what to do.

By that time, preppers would have dug in, bugged out or clubbed together to create a force that could protect itself from gaggles of 10-20 hooligans high on the last of their weed supply. Eventually, the gaggles would get bigger but the preppers defences would get tougher - because we'd all expect it and would be prepared for it.

The ones we'd have to worry about are the smarter fellows who would realise they could have some sort of control over the needy by giving them what they need. They then become 'leaders', like you see in the movies, who would lead better planned and more targeted attacks, using numbers to overwhelm. But that would take time, to get the local thuggery to trust you and believe you could help them whilst still giving them some kind of power and control. That would be weeks down the line I think.

Certain parts of society have gotten to the point where they literally cannot think for themselves. I think if SHTF, these people would struggle to comprehend what's happening and what to do about it. Like Black Friday, they fight each other over TVs, they wouldn't behave much different over food and water.

[prepperG]

I can’t stand crowds at the best of times so don’t even go shopping if the car park looks full so would avoid food shops and petrol stations, unless I am able to do a fast run before the news or idea gets out to the great unwashed. If panic buying is already on the news then I have to decide is this going to last more than a few days. Don’t forget what happens every time we have a bank holiday, you would think it was the end of the world every time. So if it looks like an event that will last more than a few days I would put my SHIFT shopping plan into effect.
Despite having some preps there is a list of things that I would like but have not bought yet.
Ply wood, generator, gas heater, gas bottles, paper plates/disposable cutlery, extra medications,
So the place to go is B&Q not Tesco

[DustyDog]

Cant fight crowds, just make sure you have all the preps you want and then keep ya heed down until everyone else either clears off or as others have said, died of starvation, make it look like you have nothing and are starving yourself, make sure your food preps are secure and well hidden.

[Hamradioop]

Unless you have riot equipped troops there is no way you could fight crowds and even then you would need enough troops to do it. Unfortunately with recent cut in the police and military troops or cops are pretty thin on the ground. Look at the London Riots, the Met Had to rely on mutual aid from other force areas, if TSHTF that ain't going to happen as they will have there own riots to deal with. So the Military will provide aid to the civil Power, maybe maybe not, as they could well be committed else where.