Cyber attack on hospitals and other essentials

[Brambles]

I'm currently reading a book on the home front in WW1. One thing that really got to people was the queues for food. Do you think that would happen again? ie when a shop got potatoes in, word got out and the queue stretched round the block. Some in London had thousands of people waiting. Who nowadays has time to stand and wait that long?

Thing is Lil, you make time or you go without, just like they did. My Mum said during WWII sometimes kids would take it in turns having the day off school to go and stand in queues for stuff that was off ration but scarce because they couldn't afford for the parents not to go to work. It was even known for a lookout to hang around the shops to see what came in and then go running to the school to call out the kids. Some would go and queue while others went and got the money or parent.

[Arzosah]

I think after the Iron Curtain fell, people in Eastern Europe would queue overnight. And in South America right now Africa too - my rellies in Zimbabwe did it before, during and after the war, and because they were farmers, they all had radios and shared phone lines, and contacted everyone they knew - soap is in, toilet paper is in. OTOH, they had avocadoes on their trees in the farmyard! Talk about enjoying what you can

[Drcamburn]

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[ukpreppergrrl]

I've been thinking since the reporting of this cyber attack on NHS (and other businesses worldwide) what if it was trial run for a larger incident and what happen if next time they managed to completely bring the NHS system down so patient records were lost, would we still get prescriptions from our GP on the basis they knew us and knew what we needed or would they be unable to prescribe anything to anyone?

What if other services were also attacked? Utilities so people had no gas/electric? would local shops/supermarkets still sell food to people who had cash (assuming tills etc wouldn't work - I rely on internet shopping as housebound and everything been bought online and delivered to me)

How long would it be likely to last before Govt could get things up and running again? How would you plan if you knew it maybe a future possibility?

With medications or food (and indeed pretty much everything) it doesn't matter how or why your supply became interrupted, that part is totally irrelevant, the prep is the same: stock up as much as you can (including alternatives, even if it's only the knowledge of how to create your own) before the supply is interrupted so that you can survive on your preps until your supply is restored. Some things can be stocked up quickly and easily (like water), some will take longer - if you're reliant on prescription medication and are putting in your new prescription a few days early each month then this will take time to build a up a stock (and always check expiry dates). But as with all things, the sooner you start the sooner you'll have some stocks in reserve.

However, you also have to accept that there is a limit on how much you can stock and for how long you can survive on those stocks. Everyone's situation is different and there are no guarantees. No-one can stock everything they will ever need for the rest of their life, just in case. (ok there is probably *someone* out there who can). You just do your best. Something is better than nothing. The longer you can hold out for, the more chance you have of still being around when the supply is restored.

I have a friend who is a type 1 diabetic. She needs insulin every day. She has enough stock in her fridge for 3 months. We have contingency plans to keep it refrigerated if there is no electricity as unrefrigerated insulin will expire in a month no matter how much you have stocked. But if her supply is not restored within 3 months she will die. She knows this. She accepts this. The likelihood of a situation arising where there is absolutely no insulin available for 3 months is small, and is possibly down the tin-foil hat wearing end of prepping, but it does exist. The point is though, she will survive 2 months longer than most diabetics who are told not to bother refrigerating their insulin because it keeps for a month - the assumption being there will always be a fresh supply of insulin. The prepper makes no such assumption. So if the insulin supply is restored in 6 weeks, my friend will still be around to collect her prescription. Most others won't.

[Deeps]

We seem to have taken a detour (nothing wrong with that) and ended up debating queueing. While some queues might be unavoidable, ie the visit to a doctor other stuff like shopping should at least for a while be avoidable for any prepper worth the name, its why we prep after all so if something does happen we're as prepared as we can be. Shit can and does happen of course but IF we're unmolested we would be fine for looking after ourselves for a good few months, I would need to secure more water probably but that's about it I think and not a huge issue in sunny Alba. If rationing was put in place (incredibly unlikely as I doubt our society would stand for it) then we could augment it with stuff already held and we can grow more.

The secret to avoid the queues, or at least minimise them seems to be......... be a prepper.

[ukpreppergrrl]

In terms of replenishment, it wouldn't be a case of shut for a few days. In my pharmacy and many others, we only really keep a day or two of stock on the shelves. All that stock is ordered from a computer program, over the internet. If the computer system totally shut down, after two or three days I'd have nothing. Now, look at an end of the world situation where people are panic buying and I'd be cleaned out in hours. If you look at the London 2011 riots, some shops were stripped clean. Now how would you feel if you spent a few hours lining up for supplies, just to find they've all been looted or purchased?

I'm not saying that standing around for a while is a bad thing, in general life. But in an SHTF situation, you'll probably have more important things to do than standing around waiting for the possibility of getting something you need. The same would go for a GP appointment. Why wait around to maybe see a GP when more seriously injured or aggressive people take appointments earlier than you, then you've wasted a day hanging around for no reason. Once again I'm not saying having to wait around all day is a bad thing, as long as you get something out of it.

But these are different situations. The rationing and resultant queueing in WWII didn't happen in the first 48 hours of war being declared - other than petrol it was several months before certain food stuffs became rationed. In an immediate, acute SHTF situation no-one is queueing, they're all panic buying and looting! This is why we prep so we don't have to panic in an acute situation. By the time you're queuing because of long term shortages the panic buying and looting will be over. In WWII they did queue for hours only to be told "Sorry, last one's been sold" and the remaining queue had to leave empty handed. In the Great Depression men queued though the night for a day's work, but only a few got the jobs. Depends on how much you want/need what you're queueing for.

[Brambles]

In terms of replenishment, it wouldn't be a case of shut for a few days. In my pharmacy and many others, we only really keep a day or two of stock on the shelves. All that stock is ordered from a computer program, over the internet. If the computer system totally shut down, after two or three days I'd have nothing. Now, look at an end of the world situation where people are panic buying and I'd be cleaned out in hours. If you look at the London 2011 riots, some shops were stripped clean. Now how would you feel if you spent a few hours lining up for supplies, just to find they've all been looted or purchased?

I'm not saying that standing around for a while is a bad thing, in general life. But in an SHTF situation, you'll probably have more important things to do than standing around waiting for the possibility of getting something you need. The same would go for a GP appointment. Why wait around to maybe see a GP when more seriously injured or aggressive people take appointments earlier than you, then you've wasted a day hanging around for no reason. Once again I'm not saying having to wait around all day is a bad thing, as long as you get something out of it.

I think most of us are aware of JIT. It's one of the main reasons I have stores because a supply line that short on stock is too easily interrupted. As a result, niether I or an awful lot of people on this site would be anywhere near any type of shop in a situation as you describe.
Most of us have sufficient stock for several weeks at least and those of us who require regular medication, as has previously been mentioned, have made plans for such contingencies.

Finally on queueing if you need something that bad, regardless you will queue for it, if you don't get it one day, you go back the next and the next until you do, or you go without it's quite simple. Either something is that important or it isn't.

[Drcamburn]

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[Ahastyatom]

just a quick reply regarding medications, in a SHTF situation DO NOT GO TO A/E if you need meds, we dont have a stock of medications, and the ones we do have are not for specialist conditions such as insulins/hypertension/certain pain medications such as gabapentin for nerve pain or anti seizure medication such as lorazepam.

GO TO YOUR USUAL PHARMACIST.

Sorry only just seen this. I should have been more clear, they did not tell me to go A&E to get more meds but because I would may have had a cardiac arrest when mine wore off.