Running to the hills

[grenfell]

Bit of a prepper staple , running to the hills , escaping the city , bugging out , call it what you like and if one is living in a city or large town and a serious local event occurs then it makes perfect sense.
There is of course a however.
I've said before that I lean more towards the slow collapse type of thing and in that case escaping to the country must become a different beast altogether . There have been several reports on tv recently about increasing crime in rural areas , farmers losing machinery , livestock and so on. In one report farmers were shown surround their land with mounds and ditches to deter opportunist thieves at least. There is also the feeling that the police have been cutback , have less presence and rural crime is seen as a lesser crime than urban crime and so convictions are lower. With increased crime will no doubt come higher insurances.
Services are being cutback too and that affects rural areas more than urban. Post offices close , buses don't run and increasing fuel prices don't help. A fuel shortage could easily see one without mobility or severely reduced mobility owing to have to cover longer distances than urban residents. There is some talk of electrical supplies being affected first rural areas as population centres are given priority. I'm on the edges of a small town and we've lost our local hospital some time ago and I. gather that's not an isolated case.
Given the potential problems or shortfalls of moving to a more rural location makes me wonder if there is a logical reason to make that move in a slow crash situation . Don't get me wrong , I much prefer the countryside and being outdoors and would hate to be living in a city but does it make sense to relocate to somewhere less well served , probably more expensive to live in , with a potential higher crime rate and prospects of only getting worse. There's no doubt life in a city will deteriorate as well but after the rural life has deteriorated. There are precendets in history too . Generally people have migrated to the city either over time or in the case of droughts or economic downturns in a relatively short period of time.
I'd hate to think we've all got it wrong and we should all head for the nearest metropolis come SHTF ( I don't really belive that of course but food for though and all that).

[Arzosah]

That's an interesting question, I think you've hit on something there, at least for a good part of mainland UK.

I agree with you about the slow collapse being the most likely scenario - and it would have so many manifestations, it's impossible to know exactly how it would play out. Disappearance of work opportunities, infrastructure neglect, domestic "refugee" movement**, gang activity ... all sorts of things would play a part.

If a prepper is moving to *try* to pre-empt the worst of any of this, then except for the very emptiest parts of the country, I think the best bet wouldn't be cities or rural - it would be villages/small towns. Not unlike the small town I moved to myself 8 years ago though for other reasons. My own town might still be on the large size, at 30,000 increased from 25,000 ten years ago, but it has a chance. The villages around it, 2,000 - 5,000, have a much better chance.

There are three cities I know well/fairly well: Liverpool, London and Brighton. Each of them would be utterly disastrous to be in, I think, in any intensification of the slow collapse. Brighton might survive a little better for a while, its coastline is easily accessible (sea bathing as hygiene!) and there are fish in the seas and small boats aplenty that could be adapted. The same is potentially true of Liverpool and London, in some ways, but between their greater size, the type of housing stock, the strength of the tides, the industrialisation of the shore, and the high existing crime rates, they'd be bad places to be. I don't give much for the chances of the satellite towns either ...





**domestic refugee movement: this has been going on for hundreds of years, even in this country. For modern proof, check out the genealogy programme on BBC1, and look at how many people have Liverpool in their backgrounds - the latest was just this week, Johnnie Peacock, who they filmed in Liverpool at various places, starting with a Victorian bridge over the Leeds Liverpool canal, he'd had no idea he had any links with Liverpool.

[Deeps]

We live on quite a small bit of land and most of the bits that are good for something have already been bagsied. If we decide to move to an other bit through neccesity (the bugging thing) then the locals might be a bit nippy about yet another new face trying to freeload from their wee corner of the world.
If its pre-empted like a move to the sticks before things go Pete Tong then I totally get where you're coming from Grenfell, if things have gone a bit iffy already when you move then there will no doubt be a bit of suspicion from the locals and if the area is seen as an easy target then human nature dictates that it will be gone for over the harder targets (like an estate that is overtly being patrolled, even by fat middle aged guys wielding golf clubs ).

Good point though, we all need to think about things like this rather than sticking to our personal 'fantasy' of what might happen.

[jansman]

We live in an expanding rural village.As a child there were about 2000 folks,now there are 8000! I can truly say to my girls, " I remember when this was all fields. " We will expand further over the next few years. However,this is my 'patch',and I am not a young man.My wife and I were born and bred here - we ain't movin'. Our property,bought and paid,has a viable well,BIG garden etc.Anyhow...

Ragnar Benson,the American Survivalist writer,suggests that a small town with surrounding farmland etc.may well be the best place to be.Our place ticks that box.

Ferfal,the writer who detailed the 90's collapse of the Argentine economy,said that rural folks,( real out- in - the - sticks) were subject to raiders who could stay at a property for days,torturing and raping.Basically,no one could hear you scream.Whilst the towns were not perfect,there was some safety in numbers.

We live on a small island.Unless you own a wood/smallholding,or piece of land,where will you run to? Even if you own it,when you get there after shtf,you may have squatters! Have a read of this:

http://duncanlong.com/science-fiction-f ... ckpack.htm

[Deeps]

Unless you own a wood/smallholding,or piece of land,where will you run to? Even if you own it,when you get there after shtf,you may have squatters!

While I personally think a genuine 'SHTF' scenario is unlikely, a minor 'SHTF' might be enough for some horrible b'stards to behave like, well horrible b'stards. Either way, having a bit of paper or a set of keys might not be enough to stop people from doing their thing. While I'm not saying it would be easy to take the law into your own hands after the zombie apocalypse, it might be a lot harder in a more short term scenario when you know that things will be restored. Explaining the pile of dead looters on the front lawn might be a bit tricky.

It could get really nasty really quickly and there are a lot of people who seem willing to take advantage of a situation.

[jansman]

Which is where this link applies:http://duncanlong.com/science-fiction-f ... ckpack.htm
Bugging out is a ' Boys toys fantasy '

[xplosiv1]

Explaining the pile of dead looters on the front lawn might be a bit tricky.

just imagine the bumper crop you'd get in the garden though lol

[Deeps]

Explaining the pile of dead looters on the front lawn might be a bit tricky.

just imagine the bumper crop you'd get in the garden though lol

You'd have to dig them in though, it seems like a bit of a kerfuffle.

[korolev]

England has 395 people per square kilometer so you're likely to be sharing wherever you are with a lot of other folks, some of whom will be very interested in your shiny kit and bags of food.

Far better, unless there's an actual physical threat, to stay in your own home and learn how to fortify it a bit.

[grenfell]

You'd have to dig them in though, it seems like a bit of a kerfuffle.

Could always use a rotavator and probably disposable overalls for the , erm , splatters.
Apart from the reports of rural crime I've listened to a friend of mine. He has a cottage in wales , brought as a doer upper at least 13 years ago ( I know that because we didn't have our daughter when he brought it ) and just about getting to the point of habitability even if certain areas are still building siteish . However I have noticed a change in the intent. He was all for moving at one point but has now said he can't really see that move taking place on a permanent basis. He's not remotely a prepper , there's a decent size field with the cottage but he refuses to use it for growing anything and finds allotments an eyesore at best. The cottage is a bit over 20 miles from a town with any large shops , the local village shop closed some time ago although there's a pub and roadside cafe . He drives but his wife doesn't which is one thing that worries them as she could be effectively stuck should he not be able to drive and of course not having any prepper mentality they don't have stores of food at the place or for that matter at their regular home although they have a decentish log pile. I suppose his reticence to move completely is the nub of this thread , nice countryside , peaceful butis that out weighted by the loss of close friends , reduced services and possible vulnerabilities to crime and of course they are both getting close to retirement age .