Running to the hills

[grenfell]

England has 395 people per square kilometer so you're likely to be sharing wherever you are with a lot of other folks, some of whom will be very interested in your shiny kit and bags of food.

Far better, unless there's an actual physical threat, to stay in your own home and learn how to fortify it a bit.

Unless one lives in a tower block in the inner city I'd fully agree and even if one does I'd still largely agree. Slow collapse type of thing does at least mean that responses can be slower too . Slowly uprating security , slowly turning the garden from flowers to edibles and so on and in the urban or semi urban location then services will probably survive a bit longer as government retracts.

[Deeps]

England has 395 people per square kilometer so you're likely to be sharing wherever you are with a lot of other folks, some of whom will be very interested in your shiny kit and bags of food.

Far better, unless there's an actual physical threat, to stay in your own home and learn how to fortify it a bit.

Personally I see this as a bit of a prepper myth too. If you attract attention to yourself by fortifying your house then unless your house really is built like a fort then you'll be gubbed too. Even if you have projectile weapons you'll need to have both all round (preferably upper floor) apertures to defend your property and generally most houses are built for comfort and not defence.

Basically you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'm not sure I know the answer to be honest, I'd like to think that if necessity required it that people might be able to work together but experience suggests otherwise.If you're a massive bastard then you might be able to terrify/cajole people into working together but even then, I'm sure it will be grudged.

Could always use a rotavator and probably disposable overalls for the , erm , splatters.
Apart from the reports of rural crime I've listened to a friend of mine. He has a cottage in wales , brought as a doer upper at least 13 years ago ( I know that because we didn't have our daughter when he brought it ) and just about getting to the point of habitability even if certain areas are still building siteish . However I have noticed a change in the intent. He was all for moving at one point but has now said he can't really see that move taking place on a permanent basis. He's not remotely a prepper , there's a decent size field with the cottage but he refuses to use it for growing anything and finds allotments an eyesore at best. The cottage is a bit over 20 miles from a town with any large shops , the local village shop closed some time ago although there's a pub and roadside cafe . He drives but his wife doesn't which is one thing that worries them as she could be effectively stuck should he not be able to drive and of course not having any prepper mentality they don't have stores of food at the place or for that matter at their regular home although they have a decentish log pile. I suppose his reticence to move completely is the nub of this thread , nice countryside , peaceful butis that out weighted by the loss of close friends , reduced services and possible vulnerabilities to crime and of course they are both getting close to retirement age .

Maybe not Wales (no offence to the place, had a few good run ashore's there) but I'd love that situation up my way, although you point out the flaws too.

[Deeps]

Unless one lives in a tower block in the inner city I'd fully agree and even if one does I'd still largely agree. Slow collapse type of thing does at least mean that responses can be slower too . Slowly uprating security , slowly turning the garden from flowers to edibles and so on and in the urban or semi urban location then services will probably survive a bit longer as government retracts.

I suppose a slow deterioration would galvanise people too. Those that were maybe apathetic might fall into 2 camps, one that doesn't want to believe that things will end up bad and another that will join the 'cause' and become more proactive about it.

[grenfell]

England has 395 people per square kilometer so you're likely to be sharing wherever you are with a lot of other folks, some of whom will be very interested in your shiny kit and bags of food.

Far better, unless there's an actual physical threat, to stay in your own home and learn how to fortify it a bit.

Personally I see this as a bit of a prepper myth too. If you attract attention to yourself by fortifying your house then unless your house really is built like a fort then you'll be gubbed too. Even if you have projectile weapons you'll need to have both all round (preferably upper floor) apertures to defend your property and generally most houses are built for comfort and not defence

Maybe not Wales (no offence to the place, had a few good run ashore's there) but I'd love that situation up my way, although you point out the flaws too.

I saw the fortifying bit along the lines of increased security , better locks , resilient glass making it harder for at least the vcasual thief rather than turning ones home into something resembling a suburban maginot line but your point is well taken.
Going back to my friend I'd like that situation too in many respects . Without getting into a them and us argument he also perhaps illustrates another element in that he has largely been a town dweller all his life and I sometimes feel he is out of his depth in the country. The field attached to the cottage is in front and was purchased at a reasonable price principlely because it afforded a nice view and no one else could use the land for anything "unsightly" . It's marginal land at best being boggy at one corner and when he first brought it there was the discussion of what to do with it. Cultivation was out , even leaving it was as a wild flower meadow was deemed an eyesore. He went to the expense of buying a tractor and grass cutting attachments so it could be kept neat and tidy. At one point there were sheep in the field. They were kept there in return for keeping the hedges trimmed although as a vegetarian my friend felt uneasy that he was playing a part in the meat industry. Another "downside" to the sheep was that they would do their business on the dirt track from the road to the cottage so he had a fence put in to stop them getting onto the track.

[korolev]

England has 395 people per square kilometer so you're likely to be sharing wherever you are with a lot of other folks, some of whom will be very interested in your shiny kit and bags of food.

Far better, unless there's an actual physical threat, to stay in your own home and learn how to fortify it a bit.

Personally I see this as a bit of a prepper myth too. If you attract attention to yourself by fortifying your house then unless your house really is built like a fort then you'll be gubbed too. Even if you have projectile weapons you'll need to have both all round (preferably upper floor) apertures to defend your property and generally most houses are built for comfort and not defence.

I'm not talking about building a castle (although......) but making the house more secure whilst remaining inconspicuous. For instance blocking the back door so it cannot be opened by fitting a bit of 4x2 fixed into the wall, that sort of thing. Far better to be considered as just another household that's in the mire and be ignored.
If "they" know you've got grub/water/whatever they will inevitably try and take it sooner or later. If they think you're as hungry/thirsty as they are, they'll ignore you and go looking elsewhere.

If all your grub is in a tent in the woods, it'll be gone in a flash.

[yorkshirewolf]

I've never been a fan of the 'run to he hills' theory, certainly in the UK, it's just too small and every other city-dweller will have the same idea:

'Let's run off into the nearest national park and it will all be ok'

Seemingly forgetting that if you're on foot, the amount of stuff you can sensibly carry for any distance will only last a few days, maybe a week, and that's without the weight of water (which would be a bugger to purify with all the other people upstream using it as a bath/toilet/washbasin)
If you're in a vehicle, you can carry more, but are then restricted as to where you can go.

For me, it'd be better to stay at home where everything is familiar, you can fortify and make your home look uninviting to would be intruders, you should know what resources you have locally - even after they've been looted - shops/warehouses/pharmacies/hospitals/doctors etc, you know the local are geographically, and you have a massive amount of resources in the immediate vicinity, and as long as you're careful and stealthy, you shouldn't have much issue getting about as you won't stick out like an out-of-town unfamiliar face.

Even without power/gas your home is giving you shelter, security and the ability to plan, organise and get things done in a quiet, safe environment - i'd much rather be taking stock and planning in my home than in a tent/makeshift shelter in the north yorkshire moors!

Obviously bugging out/in will depend on the situation anyway, but for pretty much all scenarios, i still think you'd be better in a normal house than out and about on foot with 80 kilos on your back or trying to weave a car past all the other hopefuls trying to reach the countryside promised land!

[Deeps]

I've never been a fan of the 'run to he hills' theory, certainly in the UK, it's just too small and every other city-dweller will have the same idea:

'Let's run off into the nearest national park and it will all be ok'

Seemingly forgetting that if you're on foot, the amount of stuff you can sensibly carry for any distance will only last a few days, maybe a week, and that's without the weight of water (which would be a bugger to purify with all the other people upstream using it as a bath/toilet/washbasin)
If you're in a vehicle, you can carry more, but are then restricted as to where you can go.

For me, it'd be better to stay at home where everything is familiar, you can fortify and make your home look uninviting to would be intruders, you should know what resources you have locally - even after they've been looted - shops/warehouses/pharmacies/hospitals/doctors etc, you know the local are geographically, and you have a massive amount of resources in the immediate vicinity, and as long as you're careful and stealthy, you shouldn't have much issue getting about as you won't stick out like an out-of-town unfamiliar face.

Even without power/gas your home is giving you shelter, security and the ability to plan, organise and get things done in a quiet, safe environment - i'd much rather be taking stock and planning in my home than in a tent/makeshift shelter in the north yorkshire moors!

Obviously bugging out/in will depend on the situation anyway, but for pretty much all scenarios, i still think you'd be better in a normal house than out and about on foot with 80 kilos on your back or trying to weave a car past all the other hopefuls trying to reach the countryside promised land!

You'll also know people locally, who are the good guys, etc. You may even have a number of good friends living nearby who you could cooperate with. Its not very apocalyptic though, sitting in your own house with the lights off.

[yorkshirewolf]

You'll also know people locally, who are the good guys, etc. You may even have a number of good friends living nearby who you could cooperate with. Its not very apocalyptic though, sitting in your own house with the lights off.

I dunno, i've always liked firelight, unless you're in a 28 days later situation and the zombies are like moths and attracted to the flickering light...

But yeah, it's a lot more exciting to think we'd all be able to run off into the wild green yonder carrying all our expensive gadgets, knives/axes and live our lives like little house on the prairie than it is to think;

'nah, i'll just stay at home where i'm warm, dry, have all my stuff around me, have a cuppa and wait for things to settle or return to some form of normality'




I'm a very boring prepper really...

Kind of reminds me of this sign:

[Deeps]

Yup put me down for some of that boring stuff too. Hopefully it will never happen but if it does, I'll be keeping it as normal as I can.

[grenfell]

[quote=Deeps post_id=179638 time=1535029505 user_id=5354

You'll also know people locally, who are the good guys, etc. You may even have a number of good friends living nearby who you could cooperate with. Its not very apocalyptic though, sitting in your own house with the lights off.
[/quote]

In relation to my original question you've probably hit on the principal advantage of moving to the country before the slow crash finally hits the bottom , that of integrating with the local community , building relationships over time . And answering my own question I suppose there is also the advantage that moving while times are not yet totally buggered means that the money one has saved is actually still worth something and could buy that retreat and stock it up.