Investments

[grenfell]

On a different forum the issue of rising inflation was being discussed and a comment was made to spend while the money is still worth something which has a degree of logic to it. Of course the question then becomes what to buy. I'm not necessarily talking doom preps here as important as they are it's more about buying stuff that will either hold it's value or perhaps even increase in value. Gold is the obvious commodity that retains it's value but of course eggs and baskets . For example we have my parents old house that has been rented out. They brought it for around £7000 in the early '80's and we've had a couple of recent valuations between £175000 and £200000 which is a decent investment. However , renting is starting to become a pain and we do wonder if the housing bubble will burst and are thinking to sell while the value is good
On the other hand we have several pieces of furniture , some of it antique , that we'd struggle to give away. We've just put an Edwardian rosewood castored table in the auction and might be lucky to see £50 from it. Ok so it didn't cost us in the first place but if it had it would have likely have been a loss. A blanket chest in Keruing wood doesn't seem to be even worth the value of the timber itself. I have a decent collection of cameras and lenses which i've seen rise in value but now seem to be levelling off. I also collect ostalaga which is East German items. They have been steadily increasing in value but again I can't really see it being that sought after if we go into a period of very high inflation. I keep thinking of how much money has been invested in video machines and tapes and also dvd's and cd's and how it has all in effect vanished as those goods can't be given away now.
Second hand cars now seem to command higher prices and classics seem also to have gone up but are they a good investment for the future. We're moving away from fossil fuels and their appeal is surely going to fall as people find they can't afford to drive them in the next decade or so. Or is it just a case of driving them while you can and ignoring the value?
I know it is in effect a gamble of what will be worth something in the future and none of us have a crystal ball but I'm open to suggestions.

[Arzosah]

Sorry about this ... I'm not even sure about gold holding it's value, specially not in current conditions. I can't find a way to copy the data over here, but if you look for Gold Comex on yahoo finance, here are a few prices in US dollars, all approximate, I'm having difficulty in transferring :

today: 1798
1 Jan 2021: 1834
1 Jan 2020: 1557
1 Jan 2019: 1287

14 August 2011, it hit a high of US$ 1909.
2015, it went as low as US$ 1064.

It's not as trustworthy as is made out!

Still, the question you're asking is a very relevant one for me - when I was well off, I bought an investment property in France (idiot! idiot!) I was just like those people you see on Homes Under The Hammer who don't do their sums properly. It had a 15 year mortgage, and every one of those years it was losing thousands of pounds, I had to subsidise it from English money. Plus the French property market crashed - I've lost capital in addition to losing the subsidy money. I'm now at the time when I can sell it free and clear - but it's finally in the black, and although I haven't brought any money back to England, it's very tempting to keep it, because now I own it fully, it's paying well. When it goes wrong, as I think it will, it will be a disaster again, of course

If I was in my 30s, or even my 40s, and I had enough money to invest anything at all, at any level, what would I do?

Invest in myselfGlasses, teeth, whatever. When Dian Fossey persuaded Louis Leakey to let her go study gorillas in 1966, he made the condition that she should have her appendix removed first (it was a test of her commitment, but it's logical ... it's about a third of the way down this page https://gorillafund.org/who-we-are/dian ... ossey-bio/).

If my property was safe and secure - good roof, good mortar, insulated - and I had the solar/wind/water kit I wanted, what would I do with actual spare cash?

My personal choice is premium bonds, if you can get near to the maximum, though read Martin Lewis on moneysavingexpert about whether it's worthwhile. Regular Savers, with legitimate investment companies in this country, are the best that's around at the moment - keep an eye on Martin Lewis though

Money Mustache, dividend investing Read him with a great deal of care, and a bit of suspicion, but this is a good post https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/12 ... investing/

And he's a great fan of index funds, tells you why here: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2019/09 ... dex-funds/

I think that another option is buying the equipment for a side gig that would be profitable now, and still useful as a prepper: welding, renovating metal tools - using the tools that preppers need for a side gig, that sort of thing. Or renting them out?

Otherwise, as Homes Under The Hammer fans know, if you're not in London or SE England, then simple properties, close to where you live, seem to be a good bet

Apologies for the length!

[grenfell]

No problems with the length of your answer , I'm not sure there's even an answer let alone a short one. It's something that has made me wonder for some time , probably to a degree based on things i had as a child that if I still had them would be worth a bit. Or for that matter some of the stuff that my parents and I have hoarded ( for want of a better word) over the years and is now worth bugger all.
I would think that all of us on here are on board with the idea of storing food , clothing , fuel , tools and all the other stuff ready for some kind of collapse. I'm trying to think of stuff that may very well lose value in a crash but long term when things return to some sort of normality will have increased in value , or things that will rise in value faster than money in the bank if our economy manages to carry on.
One thing I do accept is that this is a gamble and there's an argument ( and I've argued this to myself) that just to fill one's house with say modern art just for an investment but getting no pleasure out of looking at it is a worst decision than buying something that gives joy but ultimately ends up as worthless tat. I work for a guy who a couple of years ago brought a ferrari . It's sat in the garage ever since partly because it's a rigmarole to get it out and besides he's got the Range Rovers , the jag and the Bentley and a van to drive round in. He tells me it's increased it's value but i don't think he's had much pleasure out of driving it.

[jansman]

No apology needed! Great take on the situation. I can totally understand grenfell’s dilemma - my brother and I were talking about this situation last week.

Both he and I need to work. He has gone through divorce,repossession etc.etc. I got made redundant from a brilliant job ,but the company had robbed the pension fund. Limited company blah ,blah. I was on track ( back then) to be at least semi - retired ,if not fully by now. However,we are where we are. Way back,we were mis- sold a mortgage,and it made us very wary of what most people consider to be ‘investments’.I have a low opinion of financial’experts’ as a result. Fortunately,our house and land is free and clear of debt now ,no thanks to the financial industry.

Arzosah’s idea about equipment for a side gig is a very good one. My brother is a very good musician ( guitar mainly) ,and he is starting to sell his skill in the form of lessons ; and he is getting quite a reputation. It’s much easier than his daytime job ,which is the whole point.

Myself,I will have to go the whole distance to state retirement age now. In between , I want to develop a side gig. About ten years ago I did bicycle repairs ,which I am good at,but it fizzled out through lack of interest on my part. I still have all the kit , and as grenfell said,fossil fuels are being phased out. Folks will start riding bikes again.I buy precious metals too ,although I have not been paying attention there either. One of my young colleagues buys and sells designer shoes on eBay. I dabbled with vintage fishing tackle in the same way - hell of a market there too- and tackle repair too.Lots of options.

[Arzosah]

No problems with the length of your answer , I'm not sure there's even an answer let alone a short one. It's something that has made me wonder for some time , probably to a degree based on things i had as a child that if I still had them would be worth a bit. Or for that matter some of the stuff that my parents and I have hoarded ( for want of a better word) over the years and is now worth bugger all.

It must be true that there's no one answer, yes. As for stuff that would be worth a bit from when I was a child - I don't have that problem

I would think that all of us on here are on board with the idea of storing food , clothing , fuel , tools and all the other stuff ready for some kind of collapse.

I was just trying not to get shot down from elsewhere so I went a bit overboard

I'm trying to think of stuff that may very well lose value in a crash but long term when things return to some sort of normality will have increased in value , or things that will rise in value faster than money in the bank if our economy manages to carry on.

I can't name sources for you, but I've read about what's happened in prior "ordinary" recessions, and one thing that seems to carry on even during them is small luxuries. Not the big luxuries of an intercontinental holiday, but a day out at the beach ten miles away, or even a nice scone, things like that. If we were talking financial investments, then maybe a firm local to you that manufactures goods, as opposed to services? Or in your region, at least. Possibly a chain of UK shops, but its not an investment area I know anything about.

One thing I do accept is that this is a gamble and there's an argument ( and I've argued this to myself) that just to fill one's house with say modern art just for an investment but getting no pleasure out of looking at it is a worst decision than buying something that gives joy but ultimately ends up as worthless tat. I work for a guy who a couple of years ago brought a ferrari . It's sat in the garage ever since partly because it's a rigmarole to get it out and besides he's got the Range Rovers , the jag and the Bentley and a van to drive round in. He tells me it's increased it's value but i don't think he's had much pleasure out of driving it.

Totally agree: in fact, that's on a par with me buying the stupid French apartment - I've never seen it, never stayed there, never been to the (very pretty, apparently) village. Grump, grump, grump ... I suppose the only exception might be if you were doing something altruistically - if I was putting by a set of high end, pristine hand tools to be donated to a school etc.

[Arzosah]

Arzosah’s idea about equipment for a side gig is a very good one. My brother is a very good musician ( guitar mainly) ,and he is starting to sell his skill in the form of lessons ; and he is getting quite a reputation. It’s much easier than his daytime job ,which is the whole point.

That's good! Humans always want music. It's not threatening, there are accessories with it that can be made and sold - bridges, plectrums, music stands, that sort of thing.

Myself,I will have to go the whole distance to state retirement age now. In between , I want to develop a side gig. About ten years ago I did bicycle repairs ,which I am good at,but it fizzled out through lack of interest on my part. I still have all the kit , and as grenfell said,fossil fuels are being phased out. Folks will start riding bikes again.I buy precious metals too ,although I have not been paying attention there either. One of my young colleagues buys and sells designer shoes on eBay. I dabbled with vintage fishing tackle in the same way - hell of a market there too- and tackle repair too.Lots of options.

Ug. Hate the idea of anyone having to go all the way to the new retirement ages Bicycle repairs sounds great, and much needed - but you have to ask yourself why you weren't interested, maybe you really dislike it? But damn, vintage fishing tackle? My dad had a *lot* of it - stored above the rafters in the garage of their last house. He died 15 years ago, and we literally couldn't give it away: charity shops, fishing clubs, local museums, no one wanted it. Nowadays, of course, I'd pick it over myself, but I wasn't quite up to speed at that time!

On the subject of side gigs, is there a lightweight, durable locally sourced wood? To make fishing poles with? Bamboo grows in this country nowadays ...

[grenfell]

I wouldn't quite describe it as a dilemma as such , it's not the end of the world if I get it "wrong" and to a degree it's not really me who's going to benefit . My daughter will probably be the one who benefits. If I can play with my old zeiss and pentax glass and my daughter sells them when I've gone then that's a win as I see it. I can't see her really wanting to keep them or our collection of art deco or to parade around in my East German army uniform although stranger things have happened. At least I won't be lumbering her with debt and a housefull of empty booze bottles ...
Just a thought , is ash any good for fishing rods? I know it's flexible enough for bows.

[jansman]

Arzosah’s idea about equipment for a side gig is a very good one. My brother is a very good musician ( guitar mainly) ,and he is starting to sell his skill in the form of lessons ; and he is getting quite a reputation. It’s much easier than his daytime job ,which is the whole point.

That's good! Humans always want music. It's not threatening, there are accessories with it that can be made and sold - bridges, plectrums, music stands, that sort of thing.

Myself,I will have to go the whole distance to state retirement age now. In between , I want to develop a side gig. About ten years ago I did bicycle repairs ,which I am good at,but it fizzled out through lack of interest on my part. I still have all the kit , and as grenfell said,fossil fuels are being phased out. Folks will start riding bikes again.I buy precious metals too ,although I have not been paying attention there either. One of my young colleagues buys and sells designer shoes on eBay. I dabbled with vintage fishing tackle in the same way - hell of a market there too- and tackle repair too.Lots of options.

Ug. Hate the idea of anyone having to go all the way to the new retirement ages Bicycle repairs sounds great, and much needed - but you have to ask yourself why you weren't interested, maybe you really dislike it? But damn, vintage fishing tackle? My dad had a *lot* of it - stored above the rafters in the garage of their last house. He died 15 years ago, and we literally couldn't give it away: charity shops, fishing clubs, local museums, no one wanted it. Nowadays, of course, I'd pick it over myself, but I wasn't quite up to speed at that time!

On the subject of side gigs, is there a lightweight, durable locally sourced wood? To make fishing poles with? Bamboo grows in this country nowadays ...

When I have the interest,I go for it.If I can see money in it… Right now,fishing tackle is where I am at.Regarding fishing rods; these days if it ain’t Carbon fibre ,it’s not wanted.There is a retro movement back to glass fibre ,and they sell well. I use specific rods in glass,as they are tough ,and pick up split cane rods for sale ( when I can be bothered), but it’s old technology . There is a retro split cane movement within the angling community, but it’s awful to use compared to modern kit.

Bike repairs,no problem. I like messing with cycles.When the need comes round again,I’ll be there. I fixed quite a few during the first Covid lockdown,in exchange for Vino.It’s all about seeing an opportunity isn’t it?

Re: fishing rod material. Ash,hazel,willow would all do the job for fixed - line fishing.

[Yorkshire Andy]

Bike repairs,no problem. I like messing with cycles.When the need comes round again,I’ll be there. I fixed quite a few during the first Covid lockdown,in exchange for Vino.It’s all about seeing an opportunity isn’t it?

Another technology where stuffs moved on take a look at a modern bike and most of the tools I've amassed are blooming obsolete. Not a square taper bottom bracket in sight, press fit bearings , the once standard 26" wheel is almost defunct 9 speed rear blocks gone. 3x Front chain rings gone that's before you get onto the suspension forks and hydraulic disc brakes

[GillyBee]

With any side gig like the ones you are discussing it is a matter of really knowing your trade well. For Jansman that would mean the fishing tackle is a better idea than the cycle repairs

T'other half has picked up some very nice guitars and other equipment from charity and 2nd hand stores for a song with minor faults. He can do a repair and sell them on for a tidy profit as half the time the shops can't tell the difference between quality instruments and cheap tat.
Likewise we have a friend who deals in 2nd hand tools & garage clearances. He makes a steady profit selling unusual tools to collectors. He very nearly threw out a couple of A4 sheets of mystery metal before it dawned on him that he had just cleared out a former silversmith's shed and maybe he should check what they actually were. He very nearly threw away £1000.
It is a matter of really understanding your subject and how best to sell what you have, whether to Joe Public or to a specialist audience like collectors.
Meanwhile I have a number of inherited & valueless "collectibles" They fitted my parents idea of what a valuable should look like. These days I ask myself these questions before even thinking something is a possible investment.

1) Was it top quality at the time it was made?
2) Are there a lot of them around?
3) Is it worth the time and effort of keeping? (Maintenance, storage space etc)
4) Do I like it - because otherwise I won't put any effort into looking after it