10 million in severe poverty

[diamond lil]

Well this is the thing isn't it. My mum, and all the other mums where I grew up went to the tatties or the berry picking. Those days might be coming back.

[GillyBee]

Sorry this has turned into quite an essay but it feels as if not everyone here understands why people stay in a financial mess.

People tend to think of poverty as just being a lack of money/income but the lack of money is often a symptom of a wider lack of resources problem.

We raised our kids on a very tight income on a rough estate but never did as badly financially as our neighbours because we had the education/mental capacity and friends/family support network to work around most problems.

If however someone has a shortage not only of money but of one or more of the following:
Education, Health/Mental Health, intellectual capacity or autism/dyslexia/Aspergers or is light on friends & family willing & able to assist then it starts to get very difficult to dig out of the poverty hole.

Politicians have policies in place for young adults on welfare based on "Why not go home and stay with Mum & Dad". This assumes that you have a Mum & Dad in the first place who have room for you and are capable of functioning as parents. (i.e. dont have too many problems themselves to be any help)

We had a generous family/friends hand me down system in place for kids clothes and happily bought 2nd hand too but not everyone has a circle of contacts who will pass clothes on. Others were wrongly terrified that social services would consider them inadequate parents if they found out their kids clothes were not new so would not buy or accept 2nd hand.

Poor education is a curse. It was estimated that 25% of the adults on our estate could not read in English at a 10 year old level. (This was a mix of UK school failures and refugees) So letters from the council or posters offering services/help went ignored as did the bank statements & bills. Meanwhile loan sharks found them easy prey.

Keeping a job without backup childcare is a real challenge, especially if the job does not have flex to cover the sick kid sent home from nursery etc. We coped without childcare support because there were 2 of us working back to back. Without t'other half I would have struggled as I had no nearby family to help. All my friends used their own family as backup and had little capacity to help me too.

If you have find yourself as a full time carer due to a loved one's health needs then employment can seem like an impossible dream. Likewise, you may be able to hold down a job with one health problem but if you have multiple problems it can be impossible.

With no money and a reasonable skillset & simple tools you could start upcycling skip raided junk to sell. If you don't have the skills then the junk stays junk.

We saw some people respond amazingly to community groups where these provided a surrogate parent, lots of encouragement & a gentle leg up. Other people kept falling straight back down. Usually these were the people with the more severe mental health/addiction problems which had not been addressed effectively.

I am not trying to say that there are excuses for everyone to contine to sit on welfare indefinitely. Just that the "obvious" solutions may not be as easy to implement as at first glance. At least part of solving the problem would involve a big increase in addiction & mental health service coupled with adult education and mentoring services.

[WomanOfTheWoods]

Would anyone on here concider not paying their bills .

No.. I have received services and I must pay for those services.
Would you consider not paying the bills Vitamin C?

[WomanOfTheWoods]

No.

Nor me. I would hate to think of myself as a thief.

Exactly. I have a perfect credit score. It’ll stay that way. Also, if I buy or use anything, I pay.

I'm with you and most of the others on this one Jansman. I don't care a bit about my credit score. I don't have a mortgage, credit cards, store cards or bank loans and I will never use credit again... ... All these debts apparently help your credit score. But when I receive goods and services, I pay for them. If I can't afford to pay for them then I go without.

[Kiwififer]

Well this is the thing isn't it. My mum, and all the other mums where I grew up went to the tatties or the berry picking. Those days might be coming back.

I’m a Dundonian raised in Fife, yes I worked at the berries every summer. It’s in our DNA.

[WomanOfTheWoods]

Sorry this has turned into quite an essay but it feels as if not everyone here understands why people stay in a financial mess.

People tend to think of poverty as just being a lack of money/income but the lack of money is often a symptom of a wider lack of resources problem.

We raised our kids on a very tight income on a rough estate but never did as badly financially as our neighbours because we had the education/mental capacity and friends/family support network to work around most problems.

If however someone has a shortage not only of money but of one or more of the following:
Education, Health/Mental Health, intellectual capacity or autism/dyslexia/Aspergers or is light on friends & family willing & able to assist then it starts to get very difficult to dig out of the poverty hole.

Politicians have policies in place for young adults on welfare based on "Why not go home and stay with Mum & Dad". This assumes that you have a Mum & Dad in the first place who have room for you and are capable of functioning as parents. (i.e. dont have too many problems themselves to be any help)

We had a generous family/friends hand me down system in place for kids clothes and happily bought 2nd hand too but not everyone has a circle of contacts who will pass clothes on. Others were wrongly terrified that social services would consider them inadequate parents if they found out their kids clothes were not new so would not buy or accept 2nd hand.

Poor education is a curse. It was estimated that 25% of the adults on our estate could not read in English at a 10 year old level. (This was a mix of UK school failures and refugees) So letters from the council or posters offering services/help went ignored as did the bank statements & bills. Meanwhile loan sharks found them easy prey.

Keeping a job without backup childcare is a real challenge, especially if the job does not have flex to cover the sick kid sent home from nursery etc. We coped without childcare support because there were 2 of us working back to back. Without t'other half I would have struggled as I had no nearby family to help. All my friends used their own family as backup and had little capacity to help me too.

If you have find yourself as a full time carer due to a loved one's health needs then employment can seem like an impossible dream. Likewise, you may be able to hold down a job with one health problem but if you have multiple problems it can be impossible.

With no money and a reasonable skillset & simple tools you could start upcycling skip raided junk to sell. If you don't have the skills then the junk stays junk.

We saw some people respond amazingly to community groups where these provided a surrogate parent, lots of encouragement & a gentle leg up. Other people kept falling straight back down. Usually these were the people with the more severe mental health/addiction problems which had not been addressed effectively.

I am not trying to say that there are excuses for everyone to contine to sit on welfare indefinitely. Just that the "obvious" solutions may not be as easy to implement as at first glance. At least part of solving the problem would involve a big increase in addiction & mental health service coupled with adult education and mentoring services.

I was once very poor. I was a single parent. And one day I woke up to realise that poverty was my choice and not my fate. I would not accept this existence.
I did everything I could to raise my child to be a valued member of society. This meant huge sacrifice and extreme hard work. I later realised that I was prepared to do what most people simply wouldn't by way of effort. Many poor people are their own worst enemy...

I have never in my life applied for one single penny of benefit. I would rather starve. If a person is able bodied they can improve their situation.At one time my income was very low and I would have been eligible for benefits but I refused to make that my reality and I would never have my son raised in that culture. I refused to make that my life.

My child went to a very good local school. He has received a world class education up to engaging in Post Doctoral research. Both he and I own our own properties outright with no external help, gifts, inheritances.

None of us are born with skills. These have all to be learned. I was born into a working class family. Effort, sacrifice and deferred gratification are important,,,,,, all of which is classic prepper actions.
I often wonder what is the difference between me and someone who claims they can't get out of poverty.
I truly, truly believe that I could get anyone out of poverty,,,, even if I had to drag them, kicking and screaming. I would be firm. Very firm.

[WomanOfTheWoods]

Sorry this has turned into quite an essay but it feels as if not everyone here understands why people stay in a financial mess.

People tend to think of poverty as just being a lack of money/income but the lack of money is often a symptom of a wider lack of resources problem.

We raised our kids on a very tight income on a rough estate but never did as badly financially as our neighbours because we had the education/mental capacity and friends/family support network to work around most problems.

If however someone has a shortage not only of money but of one or more of the following:
Education, Health/Mental Health, intellectual capacity or autism/dyslexia/Aspergers or is light on friends & family willing & able to assist then it starts to get very difficult to dig out of the poverty hole.

Politicians have policies in place for young adults on welfare based on "Why not go home and stay with Mum & Dad". This assumes that you have a Mum & Dad in the first place who have room for you and are capable of functioning as parents. (i.e. dont have too many problems themselves to be any help)

We had a generous family/friends hand me down system in place for kids clothes and happily bought 2nd hand too but not everyone has a circle of contacts who will pass clothes on. Others were wrongly terrified that social services would consider them inadequate parents if they found out their kids clothes were not new so would not buy or accept 2nd hand.

Poor education is a curse. It was estimated that 25% of the adults on our estate could not read in English at a 10 year old level. (This was a mix of UK school failures and refugees) So letters from the council or posters offering services/help went ignored as did the bank statements & bills. Meanwhile loan sharks found them easy prey.

Keeping a job without backup childcare is a real challenge, especially if the job does not have flex to cover the sick kid sent home from nursery etc. We coped without childcare support because there were 2 of us working back to back. Without t'other half I would have struggled as I had no nearby family to help. All my friends used their own family as backup and had little capacity to help me too.

If you have find yourself as a full time carer due to a loved one's health needs then employment can seem like an impossible dream. Likewise, you may be able to hold down a job with one health problem but if you have multiple problems it can be impossible.

With no money and a reasonable skillset & simple tools you could start upcycling skip raided junk to sell. If you don't have the skills then the junk stays junk.

We saw some people respond amazingly to community groups where these provided a surrogate parent, lots of encouragement & a gentle leg up. Other people kept falling straight back down. Usually these were the people with the more severe mental health/addiction problems which had not been addressed effectively.

I am not trying to say that there are excuses for everyone to contine to sit on welfare indefinitely. Just that the "obvious" solutions may not be as easy to implement as at first glance. At least part of solving the problem would involve a big increase in addiction & mental health service coupled with adult education and mentoring services.

I was once very poor. I was a single parent. And one day I woke up to realise that poverty was my choice and not my fate. I would not accept this existence.
I did everything I could to raise my child to be a valued member of society. This meant huge sacrifice and extreme hard work. I later realised that I was prepared to do what most people simply wouldn't by way of effort. Many poor people are their own worst enemy...

I have never in my life applied for one single penny of benefit. I would rather starve. If a person is able bodied they can improve their situation.At one time my income was very low and I would have been eligible for benefits but I refused to make that my reality and I would never have my son raised in that culture. I refused to make that my life.

My child went to a very good local school. He has received a world class education up to engaging in Post Doctoral research. Both he and I own our own properties outright with no external help, gifts, inheritances. In addition, my son graduated from his Undergraduate studies with no debt... again sacrifice, extreme hard work, deferred gratification.

None of us are born with skills. These have all to be learned. I was born into a working class family. Effort, sacrifice and deferred gratification are important,,,,,, all of which is classic prepper actions.
I often wonder what is the difference between me and someone who claims they can't get out of poverty.
I truly, truly believe that I could get anyone out of poverty,,,, even if I had to drag them, kicking and screaming. I would be firm. Very firm.

I realise that this may sound far too harsh a reality for some people.. But a society raised this way would have back bone. Something that is sadly lacking.

[Arzosah]

Sorry this has turned into quite an essay but it feels as if not everyone here understands why people stay in a financial mess.

People tend to think of poverty as just being a lack of money/income but the lack of money is often a symptom of a wider lack of resources problem.

Thank you for writing this, GillyBee - I've shortened it simply because it's been quoted several times on the page already

[Arzosah]

I was once very poor. I was a single parent. And one day I woke up to realise that poverty was my choice and not my fate. I would not accept this existence.
I did everything I could to raise my child to be a valued member of society. This meant huge sacrifice and extreme hard work. I later realised that I was prepared to do what most people simply wouldn't by way of effort. Many poor people are their own worst enemy...

Well, I congratulate you on your achievements, but I'm pretty much horrified at your dismissal of so many people.

I have never in my life applied for one single penny of benefit. I would rather starve. If a person is able bodied they can improve their situation.At one time my income was very low and I would have been eligible for benefits but I refused to make that my reality and I would never have my son raised in that culture. I refused to make that my life.

You've mentioned that refusal to accept benefits several times in various posts, as well as the you'd rather starve. So, you'd have been okay with your child starving too?

None of us are born with skills. These have all to be learned. I was born into a working class family. Effort, sacrifice and deferred gratification are important,,,,,, all of which is classic prepper actions.
I often wonder what is the difference between me and someone who claims they can't get out of poverty.
I truly, truly believe that I could get anyone out of poverty,,,, even if I had to drag them, kicking and screaming. I would be firm. Very firm.

I realise that this may sound far too harsh a reality for some people.. But a society raised this way would have back bone. Something that is sadly lacking.

Yes, it sounds far too harsh - and I don't think it's a reality. It completely ignores the structural causes of poverty, for one.

GillyBee has done a much better job than me of providing an alternative view, which *I* see as reality. I'm a bit bowled over, and this has got to be my only two'pennorth, sadly, my heart won't take a debate like this, even a polite one, it's pounding like crazy as our views are so far apart. Which is disappointing, as I really admire a lot of what you've described of your life.

[WomanOfTheWoods]

Arozah,,, so you are "horrified at my dismissal of so many people"

Let me state the hard facts.

I give a portion of my land entirely free to a young couple to legally live off grid,,, I do this free. I also give them access to all my land resources including water, fuel and home grown food. When I say "free" they pay me a peppercorn rent as this was necessary to give them a lease. But the rent wouldn't buy a cup of coffee in any coffee shop per week.

I contribute to society. I have set up, and organised a lunch club serving home made food to the elderly for 3 years prior to moving North. That lunch club still runs today. I have always treated people with utter respect.

I am a person who seeks solutions...

I share my resources.

Can you please tell me exactly how I have "horrified" you?
I have not, nor will ever dismiss any human being. I simply gave my own person point of how I would not ever take one penny from the state. I did not say others should not take what they call "Entitlements".

What I do is take appropriate action. Now imagine this.... Imagine if more people in society developed self reliance.