What Preps are you doing this week? Part 11

How are you preparing
Peter
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Location: West Midlands

Re: What Preps are you doing this week? Part 11

Post by Peter »

Peter wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 7:18 pm We have two 120w solar panels charging two 80A/h leisure batteries, these are used to recharge AA/AAA batteries and LED rechargeable lamps and power banks (B&M), these are sufficient for our needs, (tried and tested).

In a SHTF situation with no mains power in the foreseeable future, we could not keep the freezer running and would cook food as it defrosted, or salt it.

For cooking we would use propane, though I’m considering a frontier or pioneer stove on the patio, has anyone experience of one ?.
pseudonym, wow, 8kwh storage and the panels to charge, wow.

We are both eighty and could not consider a major 20 year (life of solar panels) investment.

Which is why we have gone for the simple solar system above, everything, under £500 including charge
controller and an inverter.

We know after a major event with no power and no pumped water, gas and no sewage disposal, life will
be so different even for the best prepared, IMO the simplest life will be the easiest to maintain.

Which is why we are going for the simple system above for battery charging, AA/AAA, leisure (12v),
rechargeable usb lights, and power tools if we have a surplus in summer.

Laundry is also power hungry, we have hand detergent, a wash tub and posher, and a mangle......
youngsters won’t know how !!.

We have propane for cooking, coal and wood for heating.

It’s just like our childhood was.
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pseudonym
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Re: What Preps are you doing this week? Part 11

Post by pseudonym »

Yorkshire Andy wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:32 pm Are you after panels on the house roof what's the difficulty about the roof type?
Solar installers don't seem to want to put up a small array of panels only. 1.2 KWs is not cost effective for them apparently. :roll:
Two is one and one is none, but three is even better.
Yorkshire Andy
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Re: What Preps are you doing this week? Part 11

Post by Yorkshire Andy »

pseudonym wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:22 am
Yorkshire Andy wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:32 pm Are you after panels on the house roof what's the difficulty about the roof type?
Solar installers don't seem to want to put up a small array of panels only. 1.2 KWs is not cost effective for them apparently. :roll:
Can't want the work :? Have you tried a small roofing firm ?
If your roughing it, Your doing it wrong ;)

Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine
PPrep
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Re: What Preps are you doing this week? Part 11

Post by PPrep »

Peter wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 7:18 pm We have two 120w solar panels charging two 80A/h leisure batteries, these are used to recharge AA/AAA batteries and LED rechargeable lamps and power banks (B&M), these are sufficient for our needs, (tried and tested).

For cooking we would use propane, though I’m considering a frontier or pioneer stove on the patio, has anyone experience of one ?.
My approach and solar setup is broadly similar to yours, I have an entirely 12v DC setup ably assisted by 5V USB and 5V battery banks. This will be adequate for my basic needs. It would need a large - ish setup to run a freezer safely all year round. I lived off grid for some years, so don't find the idea of using low voltage daunting. Mind you, I may find it tiresome after a while!

Over the last year or two, as a bit of a techie, I've done a lot of research into protecting low voltage DC (such as solar setups) and mains AC kit from power surges and spikes arising from EMP, CME, RFI and lightning. I would be happy to discuss this and share my experience, for what it might be worth. Note there are limitations on what one can do regarding protective measures. I'm slowly building basic and inexpensive measures into my electronic kit. So.....if anyone is interested, please let me know.

I have propane for cooking, and a couple of home - built active 12v coolboxes (if there's enough sun for power).
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pseudonym
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Re: What Preps are you doing this week? Part 11

Post by pseudonym »

Yorkshire Andy wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:45 am Can't want the work :? Have you tried a small roofing firm ?
Ironically their scaffolding is being rented out to the solar installers :lol: :lol: :lol:
Two is one and one is none, but three is even better.
Catweazle
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Re: What Preps are you doing this week? Part 11

Post by Catweazle »

PPrep wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:34 am Over the last year or two, as a bit of a techie, I've done a lot of research into protecting low voltage DC (such as solar setups) and mains AC kit from power surges and spikes arising from EMP, CME, RFI and lightning. I would be happy to discuss this and share my experience, for what it might be worth. Note there are limitations on what one can do regarding protective measures. I'm slowly building basic and inexpensive measures into my electronic kit. So.....if anyone is interested, please let me know.
I'd be very interested, it's been worrying me that my whole solar system could be rendered useless by emp. Most electronics are duplicated, with the spares inside metal tins, inside metal filing cabinets and inside a metal shipping container, but that's not practical for the panels. If it's just the blocking diodes that will fail I can fit replacements. But if the panel has self fails it's more serious.
PPrep
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Re: What Preps are you doing this week? Part 11

Post by PPrep »

Catweazle wrote: Fri Apr 19, 2024 7:57 pm
I'd be very interested, it's been worrying me that my whole solar system could be rendered useless by emp. Most electronics are duplicated, with the spares inside metal tins, inside metal filing cabinets and inside a metal shipping container, but that's not practical for the panels. If it's just the blocking diodes that will fail I can fit replacements. But if the panel has self fails it's more serious.
Faraday bags and wallets for blocking signals to and from phones, tablets or laptops are available on ebay or Amazon. Note that the metallised linings can wear with a lot of use, causing the bag to lose its effectiveness. First, assuming that the metal containers you're using are for use as Faraday enclosures, such containers need to be virtually watertight to be truly effective. Faraday bags can be made at home using kitchen aluminium foil with polythene. Note that the adhesive on the vast majority of aluminium tape has non-conductive adhesive. This can affect the integrity of a home - made Faraday bag or enclosure. Any boxes or dustbins used need to have conductive gaskets for lids. Metal lidded tins can be used, but these usually have paint or clear varnish where the lid is fitted. This needs to be removed by careful sanding to maximise the effectiveness of the enclosure. All lids need to be very close fitting. Faraday enclosures can be "nested" one inside the other to maximise protection. Any electronic kit with metal on the casing needs to be insulated from any metal of the faraday enclosure. Larger enclosures can be lined with non - conductive material.

Note that more than one EMP can happen, so be aware of this possibility when getting kit out of Faraday enclosures after a strike!

Surges and voltage spikes can also happen as a result of poor connections causing arcing and power outages. It's best to check all screw-down connections such as those on charge controllers and mains plugs for tightmess and cleanness. Tightening such a connection for the first time tends to compress the wire, possibly resulting in a poor connection developing over time. I go over these a second time when assembling them. The steps suggested below will help mitigate the effects of power outages.

What can and cannot be damaged in an EMP burst or CME depends on its intensity. However, it's generally thought that solar panels that are not connected may escape destruction if not connected up. If connected up ,the voltages induced in the wiring may or may not damage the solar cells or their diodes. It's probable that the charge controller will be damaged. As you've gone to so much trouble generally, it's worth considering the purchase of spare diodes. They're relatively inexpensive and available on eBay. It's worth getting diodes rated at least 200v and at the current rating of those in your solar panel(s).

For the purposes of this discussion, although CME, EMP and lightning have different properties and effects, basically they all generate power surges and voltage spikes. These can be tackled more or less simultaneously using similar methods. There are a few basic accessible component types that can be used to give limited protection to electronic kit:

Metal Oxide Varistors (MOV's). Connect across (in parallel with) device to be protected.
Transient Supressor Diodes (TVS diodes) - use bidirectional types as they're non - polarised and can be connected either way round). Connect across (in parallel with) device to be protected.
Gas Discharge Tubes (GDS tubes). Connect across (in parallel with) device to be protected.
Clip - on ferrites or chokes, which form inductors. These can be clipped around any cables as required and are the clylindrical lump found on many PC monitor and other cables. A relatively mild effect, but also offer some protection against radio frequency interference (RFI) if used judiciously. Clip around BOTH cables for DC, and all three wires for mains. Effectively, the inductor is wired in line (in series).

These are available quite cheaply from eBay and other sources, and are small and easy to use.

This will take one a fair way up the curve of diminishing returns and give basic protection against most overvoltage events. To protect against a full-on EMP is another story.

There is also selenium technology, but this is rather specialised and expensive.

For those who can solder, these components can be added as convenient. Otherwise, terminal blocks can be used, such as those on charge controllers. This will be harder to apply to solar generators as everything is built in.

To gloss over the details, I've connected 3 TVS diodes straight across the lithium battery to give it some protection, and a couple of clip on inductors followed by a MOV after the main system fuse but before the charge controller. I plan to connect a MOV on the solar panel side of the charge controller and a GDS inside the box where the diodes are on the solar panels if there's room. MOV's can get hot in use if there are many surges. In other words:

BATTERY WITH TVS> MAIN SYSTEM FUSE> INDUCTOR> MOV> CHARGE CONTROLLER WITH MOV> SOLAR PANEL WITH GDS.
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itsybitsy
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Re: What Preps are you doing this week? Part 11

Post by itsybitsy »

diamond lil wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 3:00 pm What are you using these things for? Itsy and pseud.
It's mainly to charge phones/laptops etc, but I am seriously thinking about taking some weekend camping trips :shock: :lol: so it can be used for that too, to charge up devices and to run a 12-volt fridge. Obviously also for emergency preps too.
PPrep
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Re: What Preps are you doing this week? Part 11

Post by PPrep »

I use my solar setup for a 2.1 sound system, phone, tablet and general low power device charging. Also I've wired in a bit of "emergency" 12v DC LED lighting in the house. It's useful for my home-made cool box in summer. A 100PW panel with a battery of about 100Ah will do this for camping in the height of summer, if you go a bit easy on the coolbox, if you have one. Or will just about power a modern, efficient fridge. Old 12v fridges take a lot more power. Gas may be better if you have a gas/12v fridge. Some people who camp tend to use their panels facing in the wrong direction, or even under shade. When camping, I turn my panel to face roughly East after sunset, South at around midday and West mid or late afternoon. In theory this yields around 15 to 25% extra power.
Peter
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Re: What Preps are you doing this week? Part 11

Post by Peter »

PPrep wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:28 am
...........BATTERY WITH TVS> MAIN SYSTEM FUSE> INDUCTOR> MOV> CHARGE CONTROLLER WITH MOV> SOLAR PANEL WITH GDS.
A wiring diagram would be most useful please.