Red Sand Stone

[StephenLee]

Has anyone got any experience of tunnelling into soft red sandstone ? I am after information about unsupported roof spans, best tools/methods, etc.

Could anyone point me towards any resources that may be useful please.

In my part of the country, Black Country/Worcestershire borders, there is a long tradition of rock houses in the sandstone bedrock (Kinver, etc.). I have an opportunity to buy a small packet of land mostly comprising a red sandstone outcrop that I was going to use as an out apiary but got to thinking about an underground bug out location and whether it was feasible or not. Failing that, could I dig a small cave to act as a secure bee shed for kit.

Stephen

[Dutchie Delta]

No experience with red sandstone but if it's anything like Petra in Jordan, you could be on to something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra
Quite famous and a shade of pink stone it is.
Now there is nothing to say that the rock near your place is of the same hardness. Could you ask a surveyor who is familiar with your area about the stability or the rock?
Are there mines, defence works you could visit?
You write about the tradition of houses in the rock. Please note that the same rock may differ in density at different locations.

About the plot of land, if you are sure no-one can see you working on the place, it's a bonus.

[StephenLee]

Hi DD, The plot of land is just under an acre and a quarter about two thirds of a mile from the road. Due to the natural topography it is not overlooked in any direction. There is a rough track off the road, through a bit of wood up a slight hill to the site. The track is fairly easy with my old cherokee but a normal car would struggle. Looking at the OS maps there are no footpaths that would take the average rambler within sight of the site.

The land is very uneven and unsuitable for agriculture (apart from a few goats perhaps). There is even a depression that I could use for the spoil that is dug out.

All in all, its perfect for my bees but I would like to utilise it more if possible. We can always dream.

Stephen

[Brambles]

That depression could be dug out deeper and made into a trout pond(yum!) With the Bees and a few chooks happy days. Not sure about digging a cave/underground shed though. You'd either need some pretty heavy machinery or be built like Desperate Dan. Why not go to your local museum, they may well have info on stone mining and the local geology.

[Dutchie Delta]

Local geology being the keyword here. Without letting on too much about digging a shelter, you must be sure that the rock is as hard as the place where the houses were built.
If that's so, you are looking at something special mind the water that may seep through porous rock. Check that out first before you've dug to China and found you build a humongous wine cellar.

[hamiltonlee]

Red and deep pink sandstone is particularly smooth and soft due to its uniform grain size and can be found in natural, sawn or polished surfaces. Although it is durable and very tolerant to weathering, its soft nature makes it more suitable for ornate, carved detailing rather than paving.

[Ogre]

For roof security do you not need to build/carve arches rather than a horizontal ceiling ? Also be a bitch to light. (Ignore movie shots of lighting up all the rooms with well placed mirrors.)

[TeeDee]

For safetys sake I'd be very cautious and wary about taking any advice from an Internet forum.

Seriously , no disrespect to anyone , but caution 1st.

[KalPrep]

Agreed with the above, when it comes to things like structures you may rely upon, if you really are set on it, spend the money and get a qualified and backed up opinion. Would be interested to see how you go on though

[TwoDo]

Has anyone got any experience of tunnelling into soft red sandstone ? I am after information about unsupported roof spans, best tools/methods, etc.

Could anyone point me towards any resources that may be useful please.

In my part of the country, Black Country/Worcestershire borders, there is a long tradition of rock houses in the sandstone bedrock (Kinver, etc.). I have an opportunity to buy a small packet of land mostly comprising a red sandstone outcrop that I was going to use as an out apiary but got to thinking about an underground bug out location and whether it was feasible or not. Failing that, could I dig a small cave to act as a secure bee shed for kit.

Stephen

I don't think you will have a problem with any reasonable span although it is my understanding that such tunnels suffer a bit from damp. Maybe find out a bit more about the sizes used in the Drakelow tunnels - same sandstone/same area/same reason for digging them .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drakelow_Tunnels

>>>> The Drakelow Tunnels are a former underground military complex beneath the Kingsford Country Park near the village of Kinver, Staffordshire, which cover 250,000 sq ft (23,000 m2). The tunnels, which have a total length of 3.5 mi (5.6 km) to 4 mi (6.4 km) have a very interesting past and are a historical monument to the military history of the United Kingdom.<<<