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CB Radio
Re: CB Radio
I am very interested in this area. I want to get my license sorted this year and when I do I would love to be part of that network if it happens. I am on the borders of Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire
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Get some exercise, ride a bicyclist!
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Justin Time
Re: CB Radio
Thanks metatron. Great explanation in 'soldierproof' terms.
Seems each type falls quite neatly into it's own niche.
The CB and PMR446's are clearly for mobile and local group usage and would obviously serve their own very important purpose in that role.
Can't wait for the next installment
Seems each type falls quite neatly into it's own niche.
The CB and PMR446's are clearly for mobile and local group usage and would obviously serve their own very important purpose in that role.
Can't wait for the next installment
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metatron
Re: CB Radio
I think its the right tool for the right job. If myself and my other half both worked within 4 miles of each other, I'd have no issue dropping money on another set up for her car, but we don't and there are so few people with them now, you are not realistically going to reach someone to relay a message on.Justin Time wrote:Thanks metatron. Great explanation in 'soldierproof' terms.
Seems each type falls quite neatly into it's own niche.
The CB and PMR446's are clearly for mobile and local group usage and would obviously serve their own very important purpose in that role.
Can't wait for the next installment
Where I do like CB and I have one in my car is for greenlaneing/off road driving, as you never go alone so its a great pick when in a convoy, as its always there in the dashboard and there is no hunting through bags for a handheld unit and its less likely to get nicked as they mostly look like cheap 80's car stereos or ultra low end car stereos, where ham kit tends to look a bit pricy.
PMR446 radios are worth having in a tin somewhere with a few boxes of batteries as their cheap and if there were a prolonged power outage, it would be worth handing them out to your neighbours and setting up a neighbourhood watch. Kids also love them so even if the shit never hits the fan, they have a cool (fairly cheap £15) toy.
Ham radio is a big area as I've said, very much like CB and PMR446 they have kit designed for local use, those being 2m/70cm hand held radio's, they tend to have a power output from 3Watts to 5Watts, cost from around £20 to £50 for a perfectly fine Chinese radio and £90 to £500 for a more well known manufacture (still made in China, sometimes Japan)
2m just means it can transmit and receive from 144.000 MHz to 146.000MHz although most radios will go outside that, the range on a 5Watt radio is reliable 8 miles to 10 miles.
70cm just means it can transmit and receive from 430.000 MHz to 440.000 MHz, most will also go outside of that too, meaning you can talk to people using PMR446 radios if you want. I realistically see around 8ish miles.
You can get stand alone 2m and 70cm radios, although you see a lot which cover both. You will also see some which have 6m coverage, which just means 50 MHz to 51 MHz in the UK, most go wider than that. Its nice to have if you buy more than one radio but there is not many people using it, so its not worth the extra money.
The pro's of 2m/70cm hand held transceivers are:
Higher power (better distance)
Swappable antennas (better distance)
Easy to send data through as well as voice
Rugged (even the cheap ones are well made, you can get waterproof units)
Can run of supplied rechargeable battery or AA with a drycell case
Back light
Most have a keypad for direct entry of frequency (fast)
More frequencies to pick from (easy to find a clear one for your team)
Lots of used (as new) kit on the market.
Con's
Requires a licence to transmit legally (don't need one to own and listen)
Can be a little heavy
Menues can get a little confusing
The higher end radios (more expensive) just have things like GPS, a TNC (radio modem for data), barometric pressure sensors, water proof, most of which the average person has no need for, but if you want water proof a VX-6 from Yaesu can be had for under £100 used.
You can also get mobile units, that are the same form-factor/size as CB radios, they can be had for around £120 to £900, they have much higher power output to a hand held unit, most are around 25watts to 75Watts, paired with a nice antenna you can expect to reliable see 60 miles with 50Watts on 2m and about 45miles on 70cm with 35Watts to 40 Watts (they limit power).
There are also base stations which cost around £500 to £2000, they again have about the same power output as mobile units on 2m/70cm, but feature larger displays and also most tend to support HF and far more features.
I personally feel its worth having cheap handheld as for £40 you can get a BaoFeng UV-5R radio which will cover 2m/70cm (136 MHz to 174MHz and 400 to 479.995 MHz in the case of that radio) and allow you to also talk to people on PMR446.
Other things worth talking about when we are looking at 2m/70cm is digital radios, I like that they are harder to listen into, but due to range and price issues, I'd stay clear. Its also worth talking about repeaters, all they basically do is repeat what you transmit into them. There are loads about if you have a licence, there a great way of talking to people much further away.
The last thing to point out is that you don't have to just talk from radio to radio, or radio to repeater to radio. You can bounce signals of satellites, the moon and such. You can even use them to talk to the international space station, this can all be done with a £40 radio.
When I get a little more time I'll write about HF and a few other bits
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metatron
Re: CB Radio
From a comm's stand point, I think there are three key radios everyone should have, one is a cheap 2m/70cm HT (handheld transceiver, aka walky talky), the reasoning behind this is that it's higher power then normal PMR446 but will work with it and also most will operate as an FM radio for broadcast stations like radio 4 and such, they are also well made and will last.
The second radios I think everyone should have is some cheap PMR446 radios, you can get them for as low as £10 for a pair, there ideal to hand out to locals as I’ve said before if sh*t goes down.
The third is some type of HF radio (up to 30 MHz), the main benefit of a HF radio is range, if you want to talk to the whole world this is the way to go.
The pro's:
Very long range
High power (400Watts if you want it, although its not really needed)
Lots of data modes (if you want to talk or type)
Low cost kits, if you don't mind soldering
Lots of used kit on the market
Very little power can get you right the way around the world
Con's
Can be very expensive
Little confusing at the best of times
Bit of an old boys club
Works better at night (due to solar activity)
I'm really in two minds when it comes to HF radios, they are a must for long range comm's, but they are expensive. For what I'd consider a basic set up, we are talking about around £600.
There is something called QRP which is just transmitting at very low power, 5Watts or less. There are loads of kits online and build guides and it can be extremely cheap, i.e. I have radio's I've built that I scavenged most of the parts out of skips, I spent maybe £4 and I can talk to people around the world.
The issue with cheap QRP set up's, is it really requires a above average understanding of electronics, but if I were recommending something that does not break the bank and can be stuck in an ammo can for when/if you need it, its the cheapest way to get long range comm's. An antenna can be simply a long piece of wire strung up in a tree, you can use an online calculator before hand to get the right lengths for the frequencies you want , or do the math on paper. A turner can be used to allow you to use one antenna but they cost over £100.
If you wanted a bigger radio, you can get a ex UK military Clansman PRC-320 for under £600 which will have everything you need including the antenna and is the easiest way to get on the air. It will give you 30Watts and with the stock whip antenna, I've contacted people in eastern Europe. There is a hand-crank available for the radio which is really nice, and if you use the wire reel for it you can contact the whole world (it has a built in turner).
The down side is if you want a modern, or even old used equipment set up, we are talking a fair amount of cash, around £500 to £600 on the low end just for the radio, then you will most likely want a turner so you can use one antenna, so that’s another £120, antennas are really very easy to make, there are loads of guides online, for parts I’d expect to spend around £60 to £160. I like the LDG Z-817 tuner paired with the Yaesu FT-817ND.
The bands
160 Meters just means 1.8MHz to 2.0MHz there is quite a lot of activity on this range, mostly at night due to solar activity, extremely long range at night in the summer you see just over 700 miles reliable and over 7000 miles reliable in winter, if you want to use it in day light hours its quite local.
80 Meters is 3.5MHz to 4.0MHz very heavy used band, great range you can see similer ranges to 160 meters but you get a little more range.
60 Meters is 5.332MHz to 5.405MHz range is again very good, in the hundreds of miles but I don’t see a lot of activity as its shared with government stations and is relatively new (2002).
40 Meters is 7.0MHz to 7.3MHz This is probably the most used band you will come across, you reliable see about 400 miles in day light hours and 1100 at night with out any issues. If you were looking for a cheap radio kit as long as it covers 40 Meters you will have lots of people to chat with.
30 Meters is 10.100MHz to 10.150MHz nice band, you see reliable 1000miles in day light hours, its a good day band if you are looking for news or people to chat with.
20 Meters is 14.000 MHz to 14.350MHz is a very popular band and another good day band, it can be used to talk to the world, you can hit the US with no real issues.
17 Meters is 18.068MHz to 18.168MHz another popular band with lots going on similar range to 20Meters, no real issue talking to anyone in this country as well as most of Europe. Sunspots can be a real issue.
15 Meters is 21.000MHz to 21.450MHz Really dead at night, not much going on in the day, range is similar to 20 meters, I tend to see a lot of interference.
12 Meters is 24.890MHz to 24.990MHz this is a popular band but its another one that is affected by sunspots, its posable to get ranges in the thousands of miles.
10 Meters is 28.000 to 29.7000MHz another band that is affected by sunspots, but there is always something going on, its one of he cheapest bands to get on as there is lots of low end kit that will use it or can be modified to do so.
That's really just an basic overview, I could go in massive amount of depth but it gives you the idea. One key thing a good antenna is more important than a great radio.
The second radios I think everyone should have is some cheap PMR446 radios, you can get them for as low as £10 for a pair, there ideal to hand out to locals as I’ve said before if sh*t goes down.
The third is some type of HF radio (up to 30 MHz), the main benefit of a HF radio is range, if you want to talk to the whole world this is the way to go.
The pro's:
Very long range
High power (400Watts if you want it, although its not really needed)
Lots of data modes (if you want to talk or type)
Low cost kits, if you don't mind soldering
Lots of used kit on the market
Very little power can get you right the way around the world
Con's
Can be very expensive
Little confusing at the best of times
Bit of an old boys club
Works better at night (due to solar activity)
I'm really in two minds when it comes to HF radios, they are a must for long range comm's, but they are expensive. For what I'd consider a basic set up, we are talking about around £600.
There is something called QRP which is just transmitting at very low power, 5Watts or less. There are loads of kits online and build guides and it can be extremely cheap, i.e. I have radio's I've built that I scavenged most of the parts out of skips, I spent maybe £4 and I can talk to people around the world.
The issue with cheap QRP set up's, is it really requires a above average understanding of electronics, but if I were recommending something that does not break the bank and can be stuck in an ammo can for when/if you need it, its the cheapest way to get long range comm's. An antenna can be simply a long piece of wire strung up in a tree, you can use an online calculator before hand to get the right lengths for the frequencies you want , or do the math on paper. A turner can be used to allow you to use one antenna but they cost over £100.
If you wanted a bigger radio, you can get a ex UK military Clansman PRC-320 for under £600 which will have everything you need including the antenna and is the easiest way to get on the air. It will give you 30Watts and with the stock whip antenna, I've contacted people in eastern Europe. There is a hand-crank available for the radio which is really nice, and if you use the wire reel for it you can contact the whole world (it has a built in turner).
The down side is if you want a modern, or even old used equipment set up, we are talking a fair amount of cash, around £500 to £600 on the low end just for the radio, then you will most likely want a turner so you can use one antenna, so that’s another £120, antennas are really very easy to make, there are loads of guides online, for parts I’d expect to spend around £60 to £160. I like the LDG Z-817 tuner paired with the Yaesu FT-817ND.
The bands
160 Meters just means 1.8MHz to 2.0MHz there is quite a lot of activity on this range, mostly at night due to solar activity, extremely long range at night in the summer you see just over 700 miles reliable and over 7000 miles reliable in winter, if you want to use it in day light hours its quite local.
80 Meters is 3.5MHz to 4.0MHz very heavy used band, great range you can see similer ranges to 160 meters but you get a little more range.
60 Meters is 5.332MHz to 5.405MHz range is again very good, in the hundreds of miles but I don’t see a lot of activity as its shared with government stations and is relatively new (2002).
40 Meters is 7.0MHz to 7.3MHz This is probably the most used band you will come across, you reliable see about 400 miles in day light hours and 1100 at night with out any issues. If you were looking for a cheap radio kit as long as it covers 40 Meters you will have lots of people to chat with.
30 Meters is 10.100MHz to 10.150MHz nice band, you see reliable 1000miles in day light hours, its a good day band if you are looking for news or people to chat with.
20 Meters is 14.000 MHz to 14.350MHz is a very popular band and another good day band, it can be used to talk to the world, you can hit the US with no real issues.
17 Meters is 18.068MHz to 18.168MHz another popular band with lots going on similar range to 20Meters, no real issue talking to anyone in this country as well as most of Europe. Sunspots can be a real issue.
15 Meters is 21.000MHz to 21.450MHz Really dead at night, not much going on in the day, range is similar to 20 meters, I tend to see a lot of interference.
12 Meters is 24.890MHz to 24.990MHz this is a popular band but its another one that is affected by sunspots, its posable to get ranges in the thousands of miles.
10 Meters is 28.000 to 29.7000MHz another band that is affected by sunspots, but there is always something going on, its one of he cheapest bands to get on as there is lots of low end kit that will use it or can be modified to do so.
That's really just an basic overview, I could go in massive amount of depth but it gives you the idea. One key thing a good antenna is more important than a great radio.
Re: CB Radio
metatron you seem to be a god at this! it's something i've always wanted to get into but it goes over my head everytime 
you've seemed to made sense to me and i'm sure plenty here are the same. i think for my needs, as i could imagine, i'd need a walky talky thing to get in touch with the boss, OH, i belive you guys call it, perhaps do 70miles and something further longer to get to buddies back in hometown. who knows might even give the ukp guys a shout :r
you've seemed to made sense to me and i'm sure plenty here are the same. i think for my needs, as i could imagine, i'd need a walky talky thing to get in touch with the boss, OH, i belive you guys call it, perhaps do 70miles and something further longer to get to buddies back in hometown. who knows might even give the ukp guys a shout :r-
percyfraggle
Re: CB Radio
hi all, my opinion for what its worth is HF all the way, yes it can be pricey to start but it gives you range, it can be used as a mobile comms set up or as a long distance base station, hf would give comms with all areas and provide comms with other countries as well, frequency calling schedules can be pre set so when it does all go horribly wrong areas can link up and start passing news and other info, vhf is ok for local comms but thats about it, its worth remembering that all uk military units still use HF as a guard net as well.
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Dr_zoidberg
Re: CB Radio
Thanks for the info.
I know next to nothing about radio. Although it was a TV show about preppers in America that got me thinking. One of the preppers, his father was huge into HAM radio. He made the point that in catastrophic situations such as wars and natural disasters overseas. People had actually died attempting to get information. I don't think any of us are quite prepared for a world without the myriad of communications networks we have at our disposal at the moment.
Maybe we should try and set up a "doomsday network" so groups spread throughout the country can pass information to one another?
I know next to nothing about radio. Although it was a TV show about preppers in America that got me thinking. One of the preppers, his father was huge into HAM radio. He made the point that in catastrophic situations such as wars and natural disasters overseas. People had actually died attempting to get information. I don't think any of us are quite prepared for a world without the myriad of communications networks we have at our disposal at the moment.
Maybe we should try and set up a "doomsday network" so groups spread throughout the country can pass information to one another?
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metatron
Re: CB Radio
The idea of a network has been put about a few times and its a good one, but cost is the big issue. Being that we our spread out fairly thinly, with a few pockets of people the only real option is HF radio. The cost of a radio, power supply, turner and antenna is high.Dr_zoidberg wrote:Thanks for the info.
I know next to nothing about radio. Although it was a TV show about preppers in America that got me thinking. One of the preppers, his father was huge into HAM radio. He made the point that in catastrophic situations such as wars and natural disasters overseas. People had actually died attempting to get information. I don't think any of us are quite prepared for a world without the myriad of communications networks we have at our disposal at the moment.
Maybe we should try and set up a "doomsday network" so groups spread throughout the country can pass information to one another?
A small setup cover all bases/cheapish for a Ham setup:
MYDEL MP-30SW111 PSU = £90
Miracle Whip (for mobile use) = £130
LDG Z-817 Turner = £120
Yaesu FT-817ND (MF/HF/VHF/UHF transceiver) = £540
Diamond CP-VU8 antenna = £500
Cables and connectors = around £100
You could save some money by making your own antenna but its an expensive hobby. Most used HF radios you see on the market go for £500 to £600, even stuff from the 1980's cost hundreds of pounds. You only save about £40 if you buy a used Yaesu FT-817ND.