A moral compass in an TEOTWAWKI Scenario

[Charlie 5]

The responses that evolved out of the occupation based prepping post raises an interesting philosophical point. In a complete WROL situation or TEOTWAWKI scenario - what would you do to protect your loved ones or close friends? Would the moral codes that we live by in our normal lives be in any way shape or form still applicable? When civilisation breaks down - do those that remain civilised (at least in the initial aftermath) survive ? Or are they consumed by feral mobs that have no such moral compass?

[unsure]

personally i would do what ever was needed too protect my loved ones . i would have to deal with my consiense later , i`d like to think i would still have the values i have know but untill that time comes no one can say for sure .

[Toddie]

You're going to want to cling onto whatever morals you have. But i think truth is, over time you'll find yourself doing things you would never even think about doing now. Call it Darwins theory, adapt to the situation or bye bye.

[ForgeCorvus]

Firstly. Then is not now..... Now I live as much as possible within the law

In this hypothetical situation. Whatever it takes, and I hope I can keep my values intact



The mob may rule short-term but human beings need some kind of order (civilisation if you like), even if thats based on the principals of Orc*


We prep so we don't have to be in the mob, we prep wisely so we don't get noticed by the mob




* Principals of Orc
1: I'm bigger then you, I'm in charge
2: You're bigger then me, you're in charge
3: Its all gone wrong, he's in charge

[nickdutch]

I have had a fair few personal SHTF situations before. It does something to you. I went into "survival thinking" as I called it. It was kinda like an aggressive from of depression, a black anger. Like the frontal lobes, your civilized reasoning ability just leaves you and you thinking about survival at all costs to everyone and everything.

I ceased to respect other peoples property or money, I started taking risks, I stopped caring for my appearance. I just thought about food, water, warmth and shelter. I begged, blagged and did soft crime. Trying to get the best energy kick from the foods I "acquired" and the like. However, when you are properly poor you cant afford to eat healthily and that damages your mind too.

When everything that you had hoped for seems lost and everything that you were going to live for seems gone, it damages your character and it takes a long time to heal and get your soul back.

If there was a "major event" I am sure there would be many more people around like that.

The more I try and look after myself with some basic provisions, kelley kettle and all that jazz, the less likely I am going to become one of those zombies.

Whatever you can do to stop yourself from losing your stability, do it. In so doing, you are protecting yourself against immoral behavior in the future.

Whatever you can do as far as spirituality and religion is concerned (even atheists have a spirituality), make sure you have books about it and can refer back to them at any time.

[Arzosah]

Great topic, thanks for starting it. In the fiction we read, we're quite used to people just taking what they want, though these things used to happen much slower - in John Wyndham's books, for instance, even The Day of the Triffids, the first time Our Hero goes scavenging, he leaves money on the counter, and he can't bring himself to break a window, but he goes in to a shop thats got a taxi crashed through the front window. Problem solved.

In the real world, there's a website I've mentioned several times, but this page is particularly appropriate to the discussion:
http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs ... /0075.html Its the real life history of a semi-lapsed prepper evacuating in front of Hurricane Katrina, and on this page that I've linked to, he talks around the issue of scavenging vs looting - it can be summed up to say that if a child has fallen down a well and is drowning, then taking someone else's rope to rescue the child is fine. If you have to damage property (a shed lock, for instance) to get to the rope, then you pay any restitution demanded of you. If its not about immediate, short term survival, then you're looting, and he doesn't like that. He *really* doesn't like that.

It makes me think of a piece of therapeutic work I once helped with, about preventing suicide. Somebody said they'd never commit suicide unless there had been a nuclear war. And the question is, how would you know? At what point would you say, yep, its nuclear war, I'm going to kill myself/I'm going to break open the door on the armoury of the local police station and take everything they've got. Outside the confines of fiction, how would you know?

Nuclear war is just an example, of course, but the principle is the same whatever issue is at hand. I've been thinking about worldwide events, but Nick in the post above, is referring to individual situations too.

[poppypiesdad]

oooooohhh thats a tough one , not one i would like to be in but you have to do what you have to do . Its a great one to discuss in front of a computer screen , in the warmth of your home , with the cupboard full, the phones , internet, and mobiles working , fuel in the car, electricity and gas , and there's warm weather outside the door fast forward to SHTF , cold, hungry, supplies gone .

Survival of the fittest , survival of the violent.......................

We are not our american cousins, with little gun control and millions of bullets in our arsenal.

Ever been out of your depth , out of your comfort zone , been scared out of you pants.

What would you do ...... what would I do ............... I hope never to find out.

J

[grenfell]

like so many questions on this forum the answer would begin with "it depends on the event".
Localised and short lived events where TPTB will restore society to it's norm then I think in the main people would show at least some restraint if they know that it's likely they will face the consequence of their actions at a later date , looters and rioters were tracked down after the event by the police using CCTV , Facebook and so on.Explains why some at least covered their faces in order to try and protect themselves when law and order was restored.
In a larger complete breakdown of society type of event then I'd like to think that I would retain some sense of morals and decency . However, watching post apocalyptic films and programmes where the "good guys" have morals and spare the life of a "baddie"only for that same bad guy to come back and bite them on the butt I find myself sitting there thinking "for f's sake just kill him when you have the chance" so I can't help but think in any real life major event my own morals would take a bit of a nosedive.

[SooBee]

I think we have to go back to WWII to find any analogies or personal stories that might fit...and no matter what the witty ones say, we do learn from history. Initially, when a country was invaded, the need was to personally survive and often this was done by hiding or leaving the area (bug-out v bug-in). Refugee trails were a bit dodgy because naughty enemy planes strafed them and bombed them just to clear the roads for their own forces. These roads became blocked and impassable for the kind of over-laden traffic on them...(so travel light and not by road). Where do you go when your home has disappeared in a war zone? In WWII mostly they headed for the hills and the woods and any family who might be living out in the country.

On average the most successful moves were made in small groups at night and in hiding during the day. So small groups are supportive and relate to each other better. Within those groups, order and civilization can be maintained under extraordinary severe conditions. Protection has to be total and with no pulled punches.

I find the history of how others felt and acted when their world went mad is a good guide and well worth a few good reads.

With a grandmother who, as a Guider, taught the W.R.V.S. how to run soup kitchens in the London Blitz, I have a lot of faith in the goodness of humanity amidst the devastation of war.


Soobee

[SooBee]

I have just read the earlier and now locked thread and there is one small point I would like to add.

How do you want to be remembered by those who come after you and write the history of tomorrow?
With any luck, there will be someone to do just that.


Soobee