OK the weapons thread, I'm thinking what can we do, what implement can we use against an attacker/s as things stand ?
Please don't digress into SHFT scenarios I am talking now so we can have a clear guide and I can bookmark the thread to refer to every time the subject gets crossed, we are aware that the balance has been legally tipped more toward the victim on their own property lets find some examples and legal links if we can please
Legal Self defence in the home
Legal Self defence in the home
I have a strategy, it's not written in stone, nor can it be, this scenario has too many variables, everything about it depends on those variables, being specific is not possible.
Re: Legal Self defence in the home
Thanks Su it certainly does this part put's it clearly in the first link
That said we can now progress slightly to the bat behind the door scenario, for in this instance you are not setting a trap are you? I would looking at the legalities say that you being a cautious prepper type have merely attempted to give yourself a fighting chance if attacked in your own doorway (whether a long bit of wood is appropriate in a space likely to be inadequate to swing it is another matter) beyond that and as a first line of defence escalating to projectile firing articles could be a step too far toward the Death Wish end of the scale, but further back into the property if entry has been forced regardless of yours and your families presence and by that point it is clear that those attacking have no problem hurting you, then even now all bets are off and the threat of lethal force is legitimate and if you happen to have a Bat'leth (Mr Worf's pointy thing) hung up in your passageway even better if you can curse in Klingon they can leave or have a bad day
One of my main concerns for all of us peace loving individuals who happen to like pointy things or shooting from catapults through to long range rifles, few of us actually practice using any of it/them in a defensive manor, and this is why an ex service person or survivalist having done a good deal more than entertained the possibility of having to defend oneself in any situation, can inadvertently appear the aggressor when defence of the person or home is discussed, these links, and this discussion, are valuable reference to help any of us gain a sense of balance in the here and now, in order to remain UK not Doomsday preppers.
And in the same link this bit highlights how the area becomes greyerDoes the law protect me? What is 'reasonable force'?
Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an arrest or to prevent crime. You are not expected to make fine judgements over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in self-defence. This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon.
As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence.
That is the quandary for the prepper for in "Home Alone" Kevin McAlister although a minor set traps to protect himself and his property, doing much damage along the way and much to our amusement, if you step that up to a more adult version, who knows it could be where they got the idea for the comedic one and did a "Death Wish" house of fun, then clearly you could finish up in trouble.If you have acted in reasonable self-defence, as described above, and the intruder dies you will still have acted lawfully. Indeed, there are several such cases where the householder has not been prosecuted. However, if, for example:
having knocked someone unconscious, you then decided to further hurt or kill them to punish them; or
you knew of an intended intruder and set a trap to hurt or to kill them rather than involve the police,
you would be acting with very excessive and gratuitous force and could be prosecuted.
That said we can now progress slightly to the bat behind the door scenario, for in this instance you are not setting a trap are you? I would looking at the legalities say that you being a cautious prepper type have merely attempted to give yourself a fighting chance if attacked in your own doorway (whether a long bit of wood is appropriate in a space likely to be inadequate to swing it is another matter) beyond that and as a first line of defence escalating to projectile firing articles could be a step too far toward the Death Wish end of the scale, but further back into the property if entry has been forced regardless of yours and your families presence and by that point it is clear that those attacking have no problem hurting you, then even now all bets are off and the threat of lethal force is legitimate and if you happen to have a Bat'leth (Mr Worf's pointy thing) hung up in your passageway even better if you can curse in Klingon they can leave or have a bad day
One of my main concerns for all of us peace loving individuals who happen to like pointy things or shooting from catapults through to long range rifles, few of us actually practice using any of it/them in a defensive manor, and this is why an ex service person or survivalist having done a good deal more than entertained the possibility of having to defend oneself in any situation, can inadvertently appear the aggressor when defence of the person or home is discussed, these links, and this discussion, are valuable reference to help any of us gain a sense of balance in the here and now, in order to remain UK not Doomsday preppers.
I have a strategy, it's not written in stone, nor can it be, this scenario has too many variables, everything about it depends on those variables, being specific is not possible.
Re: Legal Self defence in the home
I *know* I'm not looking at this deeply enough, but while not yet getting to pointy bits, I'd like to put forward the value of aerosols ... hairspray, bug killer, air freshener, whatever (for me, I have *loads* of bug killer around, for its legitimate use, quasi legitimate ... spider discouragement as well as the electronic repellents ). In the eyes, they've got to hurt.
And if somebody comes at you when you're in the kitchen, then veg oil on the floor - as long as you can get out some other way, like through a window - has got to be a safety measure.
I have a walking stick by the front door, from when my mum stayed with me, right by the coats. Efficient.
And if somebody comes at you when you're in the kitchen, then veg oil on the floor - as long as you can get out some other way, like through a window - has got to be a safety measure.
I have a walking stick by the front door, from when my mum stayed with me, right by the coats. Efficient.
Re: Legal Self defence in the home
On the contrary Arzosah you've looked at it within your current means, self defence is taking what you have to hand, in your area it may be as far as you'll ever need to go, where as others here may live in urban areas with a high crime rate or rural ones, where response times are so slow that you are effectively on your own, PS if you're a bond fan you'll remember Roger Moore sorting out a snake with a squirty can and a cigarette lighter.Arzosah wrote:I *know* I'm not looking at this deeply enough, but while not yet getting to pointy bits, I'd like to put forward the value of aerosols ... hairspray, bug killer, air freshener, whatever (for me, I have *loads* of bug killer around, for its legitimate use, quasi legitimate ... spider discouragement as well as the electronic repellents ). In the eyes, they've got to hurt.
And if somebody comes at you when you're in the kitchen, then veg oil on the floor - as long as you can get out some other way, like through a window - has got to be a safety measure.
I have a walking stick by the front door, from when my mum stayed with me, right by the coats. Efficient.
I have a strategy, it's not written in stone, nor can it be, this scenario has too many variables, everything about it depends on those variables, being specific is not possible.
Re: Legal Self defence in the home
How close to going equiped, is a walking stick if you dont have a leg problem?
I love old walking sticks, i have a few, but i wonder knowing a bit of stick fighting and having it as part of your EDC, how legal is that.
I also have 2 child size baseball bats in the house and a nice old police truncheon, keeping them handy could be seen as a problem i recon, although a very grey area as i have small kids in the house?
I love old walking sticks, i have a few, but i wonder knowing a bit of stick fighting and having it as part of your EDC, how legal is that.
I also have 2 child size baseball bats in the house and a nice old police truncheon, keeping them handy could be seen as a problem i recon, although a very grey area as i have small kids in the house?
AREA 3
I'm not antisocial, just anti idiot.
If you use the phase "man up" you have alot to learn.
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools, because they have to say something" Plato.
I'm not antisocial, just anti idiot.
If you use the phase "man up" you have alot to learn.
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools, because they have to say something" Plato.
- DundeePrepper
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- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:42 am
- Location: Dundee Area
!!
If you just so happen to come up against one of this fine countries magistrates:Plymtom wrote: I love old walking sticks, i have a few, but i wonder knowing a bit of stick fighting and having it as part of your EDC, how legal is that.
I also have 2 child size baseball bats in the house and a nice old police truncheon, keeping them handy could be seen as a problem i recon, although a very grey area as i have small kids in the house?
You are a collector of walking sticks, you currently have a small collection of which you admire, you typically like to display the stick as a fashion piece, "letting them gather dust would be a great waste my lord"... and that day you were taking it to the local friendly haberdasher to source a new end stopper as the current one was a little tatty - after all you use take one out on display everyday...
You "display" the truncheon as an ornament normally (you have friends to corroborate this fact), you are an upstanding member of the community with the upmost respect for the police service and it's illustrious history. It is therefor a much loved collectors piece
You are an avid baseball fan and enjoy a regular game with the kids, teaching them of fairness and good sportsmanship - you are a dedicated parent!
Principled, moral and trustworthy in doing your civic duty to defend your family and the public from an outrageous attack by a shameful delinquent!
I should have been a solicitor and practiced legal defense !!!
Newbie Prepper
The ability to foresee is not reserved for Psychics and Lunatics. The mind is predisposed to see the future from its own past.
- Unknown Author
The ability to foresee is not reserved for Psychics and Lunatics. The mind is predisposed to see the future from its own past.
- Unknown Author
Re: Legal Self defence in the home
Actually that was Munchh, I prefer staffs but you have a fair point, many people use walking sticks, for some disabled people it is more a fail safe on a good day than an essential support, my wife uses me as a prop most times we go out, when you think about it if you're falling over, a walking stick isn't going to stop you, but it gives you two points of contact so helping you keep balance.
I have a strategy, it's not written in stone, nor can it be, this scenario has too many variables, everything about it depends on those variables, being specific is not possible.
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Re: Legal Self defence in the home
If your roughing it, Your doing it wrong
Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine
Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine
Re: Legal Self defence in the home
Im sure the law would stick by you if youvwere a god fearing law abiding citizen with no record of any sort and you found an kntruder and despatched him accordingly, or at least I would hope so?
AREA 3
I'm not antisocial, just anti idiot.
If you use the phase "man up" you have alot to learn.
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools, because they have to say something" Plato.
I'm not antisocial, just anti idiot.
If you use the phase "man up" you have alot to learn.
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools, because they have to say something" Plato.