Another little step towards a cashless society.

[Deeps]

The thing is money is just as false, we're exchanging bits of paper and metal for stuff, now its virtual bits of paper and metal. The wheel has turned again but its rolled round a few times since we swapped turnips for wood. Even precious metals and the like are only precious because we've said they are. I can understand why some don't like the potential for 'big brother' with virtual cash but I can see why the government would find it neat and tidy to audit us this way and for the majority of us it wouldn't make a difference. I still like cash though.

[Plymtom]

I don't mind electronic transactions to a degree, I'd resist doing it all with a phone though, my bone of contention is the vulnerability of having no cash, no back up so as you cannot go on selling goods (or buying) if your electronics break or are broken for you, the other thing is everything electronic means everything you do can be analysed by the state far more easily, we enjoy certain freedoms in terms of what we purchase, I believe were it to become possible for government or even Tesco to know your every preference, and frankly I hate that, I hate that now unless one goes to lengths different organizations collect information in order to direct adverts your way, the same way as I hate being asked if I need help within seconds of entering a shop, it encourages people to become dependent, not look properly, nor fend for themselves in any way, I live with 4 other adults and 9 cats all of whom have a habit of shifting stuff, so in a home as cluttered as mine ( and I suppose my parents were the same) I got used to finding stuff, not always by logic of where it should be, but knowing the quirks of who I live with, how they will inquisitively pick something up and put it down somewhere else
I was in stationary box once and asked if I needed help, I said "not yet, part of the shopping experience is to find what I'm looking for myself or I will like many loose the power of observation" She said that's a good attitude, and it is, it's the hunter-gatherer, it also fits with the prepper self reliance and having more than one way of doing something.

In conclusion smart phone and cashless is going to make dumb, gullible, controllable, people, or sheeple as we say, a big part of what made us so successful as a species was the tactile world where hands on, eyes on, and brain on, smart phones ( and other technology) should not begat dumb people, but we are being conditioned to be just that, resist!

[grenfell]

Interesting!

As far as the Swedes stopping using cash - I'd be interested to know how many cyber attacks they suffer, or how many power cuts they have (ie is it less than us per head or something?), because surely those can interfere with a cashless situation?

Oops that was mentioned and I forgot to put it down . Some have touted cashlessness as helping to prevent crime and I'm sure that in some circumstances that's true , if shops and old ladies handbags have no real value in them no point in robbery but criminals are getting increasingly sophisticated and the article did mention an increase in online fraud. I would have liked to know how the rise in cyber crime stacked up against the drop in physical crimes. It'll be impossible or virtually impossible to eradicate crime so presumably the course that effects society less would the the "sensible" one . Swings and roundabouts really.
The move to almost total electronic banking and the recent malware attacks is worrying too. I'm the last person that could be called an expert in these things so maybe I'm wide of the mark but it does make me wonder about a larger attack closing down sectors of the economy or infrastructure.
Ultimately I think we'll get to at least a situation that Sweden is at now and probably within my lifetime and equally within my working lifetime ( around a decade and a half) we'll see some countries go completely cashless and I suppose we'll accept it without too much hassle. Certainly a proportion of my income is via cheque and bank transfer and once in the bank I use my card to pay for fuel and materials so I never get to see or handle any physical money.
Deeps is right with what he says about it just being bits of paper and metal that we accept as having value although I don't see what else we could do. We can't all barter , especially now there are over seven billion of us , and even looking back over history the most agrarian of societies still had some form of monetary system even if it was very limited.
One other thing I forgot and it stems from a conversation with my SIL. In the same way as the cost of the kitchen should be added to cost of meals there are costs to cashless banking. My SIL was round and owed my wife some money so she pinged it to her. "So easy and quick "she said "and it doesn't cost anything" . "Only £500 for the phone" I replied.
Just seen Plymtom's response and yes other points I agree on. I tend to feel our spending habits will become a goldmine of information that could be greatly prized by advertisers and the like. I seem to recall a sc-fy film with targeted ads that spoke to each person as you passed them , sort of like "hello John you need to buy bloggs shirts as their cotton blend won't irritate your sciatica " . That wasn't the actual line , I just made that up but you get the idea. Probably a bit early for that but I could see it becoming reality.

[yorkshirewolf]

From what it was saying it seems cash is now used in less than 2% of all transactions and is predicted to disappear by the early 2020's .

This is a bit like when they say that the crime figures are down, maybe reported crime is down, because people know full well there's little point these days in calling the police - other than for a crime reference number! So less people report it, whoever is in power goes: "less crime reported, that must mean crime is down! we can use that to pat ourselves on the back!"

Obviously all the drug dealers across Sweden and every other country won't be going to the government and telling them what their turnover is, what percentage is cash and how they're doing their transactions!

So all the unreported uses of cash will still be there, crime, tax evasion, back-door deals, it's just not showing up on 'official' figures, I don't think any country is either honest, or fully knowledgeable about their black market economy.

[Arzosah]

Loving the whole discussion, very informative, thanks all!

Oops that was mentioned and I forgot to put it down . Some have touted cashlessness as helping to prevent crime and I'm sure that in some circumstances that's true , if shops and old ladies handbags have no real value in them no point in robbery but criminals are getting increasingly sophisticated and the article did mention an increase in online fraud. I would have liked to know how the rise in cyber crime stacked up against the drop in physical crimes. It'll be impossible or virtually impossible to eradicate crime so presumably the course that effects society less would the the "sensible" one . Swings and roundabouts really.

Good points there

The move to almost total electronic banking and the recent malware attacks is worrying too. I'm the last person that could be called an expert in these things so maybe I'm wide of the mark but it does make me wonder about a larger attack closing down sectors of the economy or infrastructure.

Totally agree, and in fact I'm working on it in The Novel

Just seen Plymtom's response and yes other points I agree on. I tend to feel our spending habits will become a goldmine of information that could be greatly prized by advertisers and the like. I seem to recall a sc-fy film with targeted ads that spoke to each person as you passed them , sort of like "hello John you need to buy bloggs shirts as their cotton blend won't irritate your sciatica " . That wasn't the actual line , I just made that up but you get the idea. Probably a bit early for that but I could see it becoming reality.

50% of that already happens online - search for hiking boots on Amazon, and even when you've shut down that tab, the next website you load that has google analytics/cookies/whatever will show you adverts for hiking boots.

Actually ... what that means is that the move to cashless is probably inevitable now, in the space where we are, unless a dinosaur killer hits us, so as preppers we have to think about that and adjust to it.

If the concern is about the government knowing what we do - well, any self employed person, if they get audited, has to provide all kinds of information to hmrc, bank statements, all sorts of things, and answer specific queries about them too.

[grenfell]

Obviously all the drug dealers across Sweden and every other country won't be going to the government and telling them what their turnover is, what percentage is cash and how they're doing their transactions!
.

Maybe an unforeseen side effect will be a reduction in drug dealers if they can't use or are unable to use cash or other untraceable methods. I can't really see a dealer going for barter certainly not with tins of beans or apples but then again they could accept gold and silver which may just give a rise to burglaries , hmmm.

[grenfell]

and in fact I'm working on it in The Novel :mrgreen

Interesting , keep us informed as to when it's likely to be available etc.

[grenfell]

Loving the whole discussion, very informative, thanks all!

[
a goldmine of information ...advertisers ...with targeted ads ...

50% of that already happens online - search for hiking boots on Amazon, and even when you've shut down that tab, the next website you load that has google analytics/cookies/whatever will show you adverts for hiking boots.

Needs work though , while I don't tend to look for ladies fashion ware I have noticed an awful lot of ads on varying forums trying to sell swimware

[hobo]

I seem to recall a sc-fy film with targeted ads that spoke to each person as you passed them , sort of like "hello John you need to buy bloggs shirts as their cotton blend won't irritate your sciatica " . That wasn't the actual line , I just made that up but you get the idea. Probably a bit early for that but I could see it becoming reality.

Blade Runner?
More recently in Thomas Sweterlitsch's novel 'Tomorrow and Tomorrow' where everyone is fully wired in to a digital world. Scary!

[ukpreppergrrl]

I seem to recall a sc-fy film with targeted ads that spoke to each person as you passed them , sort of like "hello John you need to buy bloggs shirts as their cotton blend won't irritate your sciatica " . That wasn't the actual line , I just made that up but you get the idea. Probably a bit early for that but I could see it becoming reality.

Blade Runner?
More recently in Thomas Sweterlitsch's novel 'Tomorrow and Tomorrow' where everyone is fully wired in to a digital world. Scary!

Minority Report (2002) - John Anderton (Tom Cruise) has had his eyes replaced to fool retinal scanners:
GAP Sign: Hello Mr. Yakamoto and welcome back to the GAP!
John Anderton: *Mr. Yakamoto?*