Legal Self defence in the home

[dangerous dave]

atm i have a crow bar sledge hammer and power bar down besides my front door (all for ligit uses) i have used them all in the last few days its just a place where i store my most commonly used tools so if an intruder was to force their way into my house i would grab one of these preferable the power bar
but upstairs just in a Ottoman at the end of the bed is the sports equipment which i take my daughter onto the field with including cricket bat and ball base ball bat / ball hokey stick and all the extras football b ball and so on so if i were up stairs and herd an intruder i would grab one of the previous mentioned items

self defence in and out of the home has always been a Gray area who is the prison to judge what the Reasonable force was at that particular time what state of mind you where in etc

DD

[Briggs]

I keep a trauma kit beside my bed. Any intruder making it past the dogs and then past my wife will be in serious need of it

[Steveo82]

Berreta A400 extrema 5 shot semi auto. I don't think you can get better home defence and with the law changes if I can justify it I can use it. I also have a starting pistol (for dog training) which would scare off 99.9% of intruders.

[Plymtom]

Berreta A400 extrema 5 shot semi auto. I don't think you can get better home defence and with the law changes if I can justify it I can use it.

That is exactly the grey area we're talking about here, there is little doubt a shotgun would make a good defence tool, ( bloody good deterrent too) but the law changes still make the "if" iffy out in the country there's more chance of it being reasonable as a little other choice thing, like they say if you find yourself in the situation and are so armed, they will look at each case and decided, but to want one for that purpose is not grounds for a license, I do think it important we take the time to mention that whilst Steveo himself knows a fair bit about firearms law ( he'd have to, in order to get his FAC) most of us don't, his firearms like all who go down that route will be securely stored, and he will have to feel very threatened to go as far as to get one out, as would I.

[delard]

Hi,

Its actually pretty easy to get a shotgun license as long as you have a clean criminal record and are willing to jump through some hoops (join a club, fill in forms, get a gun cabinet installed etc).

However as you say a shotgun isn't likely to be a lot of use to you in a sudden home invasion scenario - as it will be locked away in some corner of the house. Even if the law didn't insist on locking away firearms I would do it anyway. Keeping a loaded shotgun under the bed might sound reassuring but I would be constantly terrified that someone (worst of all your own kids) would hurt themselves with it.

I think a samurai sword is a very effective weapon - even if you don't know how to use it properly - holding several feet of razor sharp steel firmly in 2 hands makes anyone a very dangerous opponent. If I knew that someone definitely was a threat to me or my family - and a firearm wasn't an option but I could choose any other weapon - then I'd choose to have a samurai sword I think.

Its not so clear though when the type of threat is more ambiguous. A few times over the years I've been sent downstairs by my wife in the middle of the night to investigate suspicious noises she thought might be an intruder (every time was a false alarm by the way!). Skulking around your house in the dark is pretty scary and its very reassuring to have weapon. The trouble with a samurai sword in that situation is its too lethal. If you get surprised and swing it at someone and connect they are probably going to die - and then you might find it wasn't a burglar - or just some 11 year old kid who had broken in.

A compromise is something like a crowbar - has some range to it and would be pretty effective - without being so lethal.

Personally I'm not so concerned about the legal implications of self defense in the home. I would try to avoid killing anybody if I could - regardless of the law. However if I found myself in a situation where there was a stranger in my house and I had good reason to assume they meant harm to me or my family - then I would stop them if I possibly could - and risk to their life wouldn't be a factor in deciding how I did that.

If that situation happened - and I killed an intruder - and as a consequence ended up in legal trouble - so be it. The alternative would be to risk your families lives to avoid legal risk to yourself.

- delard

[munchh]

What part of the law changed, surly they still have to be in a gun safe?

[Wingfoot]

his firearms like all who go down that route will be securely stored, and he will have to feel very threatened to go as far as to get one out, as would I.

Plymtom

I agree, but you should not assume you will even have time to get to a firearm.

I can assure you when your in bed & asleep you will not have the awareness to locate the secured gun box keys & unlock the safe in time to obtain said item before the bad guys are inside your property, if the item(s) you chose to defend yourself with are not immediately to hand, which any UK legal firearm will not be, then you will just have to take your chances along with the rest of us & hope for the best

Wf

[Plymtom]

his firearms like all who go down that route will be securely stored, and he will have to feel very threatened to go as far as to get one out, as would I.

Plymtom

I agree, but you should not assume you will even have time to get to a firearm.

I can assure you when your in bed & asleep you will not have the awareness to locate the secured gun box keys & unlock the safe in time to obtain said item before the bad guys are inside your property, if the item(s) you chose to defend yourself with are not immediately to hand, which any UK legal firearm will not be, then you will just have to take your chances along with the rest of us & hope for the best

Wf

Wingfoot absolutely and exactly what I was hinting at in a way, the risk in "Normal" times for me does not warrant locating a gun safe next to my bed, nor making my first priority going to it wherever it is.
My alarm system is designed to detect attempted entry as is apposed to the more usual "already inside" type my Rottweiler and an angry me ( and I'd only put that hat on once I'd established by reading the panel that someone had breached those defences) by this point any baddie within the house (alarms going off lights all on an owner moving around speaking) who isn't running away is it can be assumed here to fight, and now we are at the taking our chances stage, anything to hand with which to defend myself and family with could come into play, and you are absolutely right still Wingfoot, it's unlikely to be a gun, access to two different safes and fumbling about removing obstacles to them, over grabbing something far less messy and hopefully in normal times and most cases far more suitable

So here we are back to Maglites, Baseball bats, and heavy ornaments, and debating whether or not our placement of those is sensible enough to offer the householder the advantage and not hand it to the intruder.

My strategy in the here and now has not changed much:-
First don't make it easy for them to get it.. good locks, double glazing.
Second detect them attempting to gain entry rather than when the door has already been forced or a presence detected within the property, and know from a glance at any of the keypads where the attempt or entry had been made.
Third investigate it isn't a false alarm, cat locked in a room with a PIR/major thunderstorm setting off vibration detectors.
Fourth any one of the five of us would be calling the police, whilst the rest of us were trying to chase off, or arrest the intruder, or defend ourselves were the intruder hostile.
And finally should it be obvious to the whole household that the intruders were intent on endangering our lives, and we may have a word or phrase we can shout to signal this is the case, whatever force we can bring to the fight would come into play, up to and including lethal.

[Steveo82]

The original post states weapons legal to deal with an attacker in the home not a burglar an atacker. Which to means if you have the right setup security wise not your normal burglar as they will run a mile when the alarm and dog is going nuts. My gun safe sits inside a wardrobe next to the bed and the solid wood door at the bottom of the stairs locks from our side. If an attacker worked his way through all this purely to get to me and my family then and only then would I have a legal right to protect my family with a shotgun. Please bare in mind legally you can only protect human life with a shotgun not property just human life. Although things are changing more towards the victims side.
One last point from me
This discussion is normal times not shtf
All the bull crap about searching in the dark for an intruder with hand weapons etc etc. why risk your life. Come on is it worth it really how can you prep in prison, hospital or 6ft under.
This site is about preparing so prepare, get an alarm, install security. Burglars are not as stupid as some of the people they rob. 99.99% of burglars will run away at the sound of an alarm. Have a look at your property from the boundaries and imagine your a burglar, how would he/she evaluate your house security wise.

[delard]

All the bull crap about searching in the dark for an intruder with hand weapons etc etc. why risk your life. Come on is it worth it really how can you prep in prison, hospital or 6ft under.

What are you going to do if you hear a noise or your alarm activates in the middle of the night - hide under the bed and hope its either a false alarm or they go away eventually?

If you are on your own then I can respect this response (though personally I'd have trouble getting back to sleep without checking out the house). However if your kids are in other rooms in the house I don't think you have that option - you have to put yourself between them and any potential threat.

I can also respect the point of view that says you should investigate unarmed - as you don't want to escalate the situation. However that isn't for me - I would investigate with a weapon.

- delard