Brexit in October?

[jeffleft]

I agree I don't think Brexit debates solve anything, firstly they are usually non factual and secondly very few people truly question themselves and their true motives and most importantly what power do we have once we have finished our intellectual discussion?

The remainer (Cameron) who allowed you and me the " POWER to control our destiny" had no belief in democracy and no commitment behind your vote and he represents the contempt of all of his peers towards both the people who voted to leave and those who voted to remain! If this is wrong why are we still in the EU?

I'm sick of being reiterated so-called fact from media and newspapers that only strengthens the individual’s historic pre judgments; this is not just a Brexit problem! The information described in these rags should be used as an index for the possible 'future expert' to then go and find the truthful and balanced insight. I have yet to see a straight banana but stupidity aside admittedly for the last 40 years we have been happy to play this silly EU game? What’s changed in the last few years? The fact is we or should I say the Government have no physical assets to sell and the bank account is empty without answers you can only place blame! (The NHS is no longer a financial asset being purposely allowed to become a debt and will be given away, of course it will be dressed and presented as the deal of the century for the UK people and before you get any bright ideas! Remember referendums don’t work)

There are divisive forums that supposedly debate Brexit? But these divided vacuums of ‘knowledge’ are a good indication of how it or we will be played out! If they can’t get the answer that suits they will change the question or at least how it’s perceived. Remember as much as the people who voted to leave don't want another referendum to define what the remoaners want, nobody has defined what the Brexiteers truly wanted? That leaves a great big hole in the contract for the politicians to create the Brexit that the MP’s want and will get, they make the decisions not you!

I'm just guessing here, because no one knows?? But once Boris crashes out we will be forced into a rehash of the same Theresa May deal whereby nothing actually changes, we will pay the same and will no longer have our own elected MEP, once this happens people yet again will want to place blame onto everyone else, that is when Nigel Farrago or similar will step up to the podium winning a landslide victory who will then offer a UK-US trade deal and a limited time free health care for the next 15 maybe 20 years via a USA insurance scheme. But don’t worry the EU will soon fail in its current guise!

I think Frankie Boyle gets it right most of the time!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNs7R928tiA

[featherstick]

I'm of the same mind.

When negotiating you need to be able to walk away, saying "we have to have a deal, any deal" puts you in a weak position at the table

You wouldn't walk into a car showroom and say to the guy "I'm not sure what I'm after but I'm going to buy it from you".

Fundamentally flawed analogy. If you say "No Deal" in a car showroom, the dealer keeps his car, you keep your money, nothing changes.

If we exit the EU with No Deal, we exit over 700 international agreements that we hold with or via the EU, that we've been instrumental in developing and that facilitate nearly every aspect of our lives from putting the food on the supermarket shelves to the bank payments that let you buy stuff online from China. All these agreements then have to be renegotiated and re-written back into UK law. This will take years. The last country to do this was the Soviet Union, the disruption lasted over a decade. It would be like giving the car dealer your money, the keys to your existing car, walking home, setting fire to the house and quitting your job, if we are looking for analogies.

The only people who will benefit from Brexit are the vulture capitalists and tax evaders and their political lackeys. Jacob Rees-Mogg's father literally wrote a book on how to profit from the type of chaos his son is now promoting. If you think they have any concern for you and I you need your bumps felt.

[Deeps]

I'm of the same mind.

When negotiating you need to be able to walk away, saying "we have to have a deal, any deal" puts you in a weak position at the table

You wouldn't walk into a car showroom and say to the guy "I'm not sure what I'm after but I'm going to buy it from you".

Fundamentally flawed analogy. If you say "No Deal" in a car showroom, the dealer keeps his car, you keep your money, nothing changes.

If we exit the EU with No Deal, we exit over 700 international agreements that we hold with or via the EU, that we've been instrumental in developing and that facilitate nearly every aspect of our lives from putting the food on the supermarket shelves to the bank payments that let you buy stuff online from China. All these agreements then have to be renegotiated and re-written back into UK law. This will take years. The last country to do this was the Soviet Union, the disruption lasted over a decade. It would be like giving the car dealer your money, the keys to your existing car, walking home, setting fire to the house and quitting your job, if we are looking for analogies.

The only people who will benefit from Brexit are the vulture capitalists and tax evaders and their political lackeys. Jacob Rees-Mogg's father literally wrote a book on how to profit from the type of chaos his son is now promoting. If you think they have any concern for you and I you need your bumps felt.

You're maybe overthinking it. You've given reasons why YOU think it's a bad idea. I don't disagree but we had a vote. Since then parliament have had 3 years to put stuff in place and spectacularly failed due to self Interest so we are where we are. Unless you think parliamentary democracy is more important than real democracy of course.

I was merely trying to point out that anyone going into a negotiation isn't (or shouldn't) hamstring themselves by removing their options. I doubt any of those trying to push through the "no deal" stuff would want it if they were the ones negotiating.

[Arzosah]

I was merely trying to point out that anyone going into a negotiation isn't (or shouldn't) hamstring themselves by removing their options

I've been thinking about this a lot recently, and I understand the logical point. I even agree with it. But the practical effect is that nothing that's said is to be believed, and no one is trustworthy.

Of course, they've always wanted to not hamstring negotiations, so they've always been saying things in this way, but this is an issue that's central to our future for the next 50 years, potentially, and the crudeness of the "debate" and the points made is appalling.

[ForgeCorvus]

All political discussion aside, I do find the date an interesting choice.
Samhain is an important Pagan festival, its the end of harvest and the start of the year. Its the time you see what you've gathered in and prepare for the onset of winter (the hardtimes).

Look to your Preps friends.

[jansman]

All political discussion aside, I do find the date an interesting choice.
Samhain is an important Pagan festival, its the end of harvest and the start of the year. Its the time you see what you've gathered in and prepare for the onset of winter (the hardtimes).

Look to your Preps friends.

I think that is a rather good take on the situation. Our harvest is gathered here at Chez Jansman, pretty much. As a moderator , I have to put a halt to decisive political posts.

[diamond lil]

BBC now saying flu vaccine will be held up due to Brexit.

[Arzosah]

Ug. I'm hoping to be out and about a little bit more than last year - travelling on public transport once a week, nothing dramatic! - so I'm going to be all over the flu vaccine, I'm usually quite dozy about it, but not this year.

[Stonecarver]

It is interesting that over and and over recently there have been the fateul words ' food shortages' and yet people have not been going ape shit (pardon my french)

[diamond lil]

That isn't bothering me so much - you cal always eat something else that is available instead. But the rise in gas & elect prices just at the start of winter does bother me.