Paris Pandemonium!

[Hamradioop]

Don't rely on the Politicians to protect you, they will deploy the police and army to protect themselves first, and possible Central London, Birmingham, Manchester, and possibly Sheffield. Their are not enough police and soldiers to do everything. The best you can hope for is a reactive response.

[Moxy]

Being situationally aware is a neccessity, especially in these tense times. Be aware of fire exits, escape plans, potential targets, FCO security assessments on foreign countries and that country's individual security threats. A bunch of years ago I was on the Stranraer-Belfast ferry and lay down next to an emergency escape hatch. I started reading what was necessary in order to deploy and use the emergency chute and life raft. I realised afterwards that had I not laid down there, I would have been clueless. I would say most of the boat would be the same. It would be chaos! Since then, I always make a point of walking ALL of the public areas of a boat so that I am familiar with the layout. I try and sit at the escape door on buses/coaches (more leg room as well). Transport hubs try and sit where there are fewer people. Be vigilant for abandoned luggage and report it. I live in N.Ireland and hijackings are still quite common, so when I'm in large towns or cities I always lock the car doors and be aware of people approaching your vehicle. I have been in bars with the wife, and have felt an atmosphere and known that there is the potential for violence. More often than not I have been right. But being situationally aware has enabled to move my wife out of harms way. You owe it to yourself and any family you have with you at the time.

[Manclife]

But you can't compare apples with bananas. France has extensive land borders over which you could smuggle pretty much anything you want. I've skied into France and back and not one armed Gendarme jumped out from behind a tree.
Plus, France has one of the highest figures of firearms per capita in the world (they're number 11) so have something like 100 times the legal amount of firearms, and theirs aren't rigorously policed like over here with interviews and the like. By which I mean ours are mostly farmers with shotguns (620,000 licences) or semi automatic weapons you have to show proof of use to obtain (120,000 licences). France has over 20M legal firearms alone, let alone all the hardcore weaponry that's found it's way over the border.

If we were discussing general everyday policing and the risk from firearms then I would agree but we're not. We talking about a handful of people with access to automatic weapons so point still stands. The UK does not have enough armed offices to respond the same way France did whatever the historical or day to day reason for that is. Also they may have a lot of guns but the murder rate from guns in France is similar to the rest of Europe.

As for smuggling illegal items into the UK whilst it may be a little more difficult it's not that hard AK47? Rocket launcher? Grenade?

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... k47-949624

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ester.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-2289078

All available on the street of Manchester and that's just the criminal element never mind a terrorist with a fixed mind set and nothing to loose.

[Holomon]

If we were discussing general everyday policing and the risk from firearms then I would agree but we're not. We talking about a handful of people with access to automatic weapons so point still stands. The UK does not have enough armed offices to respond the same way France did whatever the historical or day to day reason for that is. Also they may have a lot of guns but the murder rate from guns in France is similar to the rest of Europe.

As for smuggling illegal items into the UK whilst it may be a little more difficult it's not that hard AK47? Rocket launcher? Grenade?

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... k47-949624

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ester.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-2289078

All available on the street of Manchester and that's just the criminal element never mind a terrorist with a fixed mind set and nothing to loose.

But that's my point, they don't have access to automatic weapons in this country. We have no land borders, we have excellent border control, and the chances of illegal weaponry being smuggled in here are very low compared to ANY other European country as they all have huge land borders.
Two of your links are from 4 and 5 years ago, and one of those doesn't even state that the weapons were actually live firing. Most of the time the police sensationalise their firearms busts by stating they seized a bazooka, even though it's deactivated. The last police raid article I saw only had one actual gun that fires actual bullets. The others were either deactivated, blank firing or air pistols. But because Air Pistols are now a class of firearm, the gits can claim "400 firearms taken off the street!"...when it isn't the case.

As for murder rates, in 2010 France had 0.22 per 100,000 people, we had 0.04. Yes France probably had the same sort of murder rate as the rest of Europe - because they all have massive land borders as I said before.

Besides which, also, as I've said before - even if every Bobby in this country had a firearm and the training to use it, they could have done absolutely sod all more than the French if someone walked into a random Sainsbury's and opened fire unless they happened to be stood right there and looking the right way.

Lastly... We are seen as "THE WEST"...there are easier targets in Europe than the UK for a mass shooting, with the same impact because we've just proven we all stand together etc etc. If anything happens over here it'll be similar to July 7th, because it's easier to build a bomb in this country than it is to sneak in a machine gun, and a damn site less risky.

[PreparedKent]

If anything happens over here it'll be similar to July 7th, because it's easier to build a bomb in this country than it is to sneak in a machine gun, and a damn site less risky.

I think that comment is definitely spot on, and if unlucky enough to be caught up in a bombing on a tube or train its pot luck whether or not you will survive

[Captain Darling]

Thing is if anyone wants to get guns or explosives in they will, I'm sure theres ways if you try hard enough and know who to ask. Drugs, fake booze and fags all get here why not arms and munitions?

The main purpose of terrorism, is to cause terror. It doesn't matter how many they kill, whether they're killing police/military or women and kids. Neither does it matter if they kill with weapons, explosives or even kitchen knives. When theres a will theres a way and they WILL find a way, somewhere and somehow.

Try not to be there, if you are there, try to get out, if you can't get out, try to hide, of you can't hide, try to fight back.

[Manclife]

Holoman I'm hoping you're being ironic. Our borders leak like a sieve and if a quick search in my own town for weapons seized isn't enough evidence and the fact 2 cops were killed by a fool with access to live grenades isn't enough then how about theses from less than 12 months ago:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/on ... ls-3898722

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -home.html

The simple fact is weapons are readily available in the UK and should a small group decide to carry out a Paris style attack the police won't be able to respond.

[Holomon]

Holoman I'm hoping you're being ironic. Our borders leak like a sieve and if a quick search in my own town for weapons seized isn't enough evidence and the fact 2 cops were killed by a fool with access to live grenades isn't enough then how about theses from less than 12 months ago:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/on ... ls-3898722

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -home.html

The simple fact is weapons are readily available in the UK and should a small group decide to carry out a Paris style attack the police won't be able to respond.

This is getting to be a pointless argument, as without proper figures there's no way of proving either way. Your second link by the way is the exact same article I was talking about in my previous post.
Do you know how many of those guns pictured are actually air weapons, parts of air weapons or kid's BB guns? It's 15. The sawn off, uzi, tommy gun and the two pistols (I'm ignoring the half a revolver as it's not even viable) are probably deactivated.

I maintain that anyone trying to effect some sort of terrorist attack over here will do so with an improvised explosive device. It has more impact than a random shooting and would be far easier to pull off than sneaking an AK-47 in under your dishdash. I'm pretty sure history backs me up;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te ... at_Britain

I make that 59 different bombing attacks, 1 mortar, 1 rpg, 4 shootings (one was the Iranian Embassy Seige, we all know how that went), 1 car ramming and an Axe/Machete attack.

[unsure]

it would appear the mod has had the knife out again or will do if left to it .

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/br ... st-5012102

not the most reliable of sources but its there .

so once again it comes back to the government . can they really defend every one with so little .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... urope.html

so with 64 million people in the uk and 60,000 soldiers . to me its not a lot to go around is it .even if you factor in the police ,they are still out numbered if the country decides to riot or worse .

[grenfell]

Agreed , add in the police , navy airforce and reservists and they're going to be quite thinly spread and that in itself assumes that they'll be able to transport those troops and their equipment without hindrance or delay.
More would help of course but I don't envy any government trying to get the figures right.it's a armful balancing act that won't please anyone and could end up pleasing almost no one . You could say that half a million or a million men in arms could be a better figure but that may very well lead to accusations of TPTB having such a large army purely to excerpt it's will on the general population. Equally if such a force deters terrorists and we all live in peace it wouldn't be long before the bean counters start saying something along the lines of this huge force draining the purse and doing nothing.