chances of WW3?

[Deeps]

Maybe some Twiglets too, I do enjoy a bar snack whilst glugging the vino!

Think any Russian snacks would be potato based, they've got their traditions after all.

[itsybitsy]

Maybe some Twiglets too, I do enjoy a bar snack whilst glugging the vino!

Think any Russian snacks would be potato based, they've got their traditions after all.

True. Giant bag of Walkers Ridged Paprika will do then.

[sniper 55]

Last I heard and it was some time ago, was that there were no plans to warn the public. Apparently they don't want the roads blocked. Theres also the question of feeding and caring for the survivors after, more dead less problem looking after whats left
That might have changed but I have my doubts.

On that subject I visited a bunker and they had the systems which controlled the local sectors and the control units to the sirens these control units listened for a tone on the phone line the chap said they needed the signal for a full minute before the siren would power up so 4 minute warning from someone at the awac base at RAF filingdales seeing a missile getting the nod from the top brass to set the alarms off the 60 second of the sirens control units to wake up to switch on the rotary fan motor and the 10 or so seconds before the motor to ramp up ment Joe public might have got 2.5 to 3 mins warning on a good day! The speaker systems in hospitals and police stations worked a bit faster but not much

This being backed up by my uncle who did his time at GPO / British telecom .... And my father who made the base plate and help mount the towns siren

Do the sirens still exist? I remember them testing them every so often back in the 1960s or 1970s but I thought they were all removed.

[sniper 55]

Hypothetically...going by that video where they used doors covered with heavy fabrics etc...would I be safe behind a thick leather sofa, (if I found some way to make a 'roof' and cover it with foil) the wall behind it being the wall between the lounge and bedroom? There is a window in that room so I'd have to find a way to cover it (though the curtains are a thick heavy suede material if I could get them closed, usually leave them open as there's blinds also in that window) but the bedroom has a big door in (emergency fire exit to get out with wheelchair) which would be alot harder to cover and the curtains are a lighter cotton so maybe not offer as much protection? (no blinds in bedroom as its a back door and would be too much of a faff with having to let the dog out so often usually)

The only other place would be in the hallway with all the doors to the other room shut but of course the front door is at the end so I'd have to plug the gaps under it and the side where it locks (at the bottom) as for some reason when the wood shrinks it shrinks the most there! No idea how I'd build a den in there though. Other thought was to cover the dogs crates in foil and hide in there (he's got one wire, one fabric crate. I wouldn't be able to move the wire crate so we'd have to hide in the spare room where that is and block that window (which is the smallest window in the house, but very light cotton curtains, no lining) The lounge has the thickest curtains and blinds in that window and the big thick leather sofa to hide behind and the inner wall on the other side of me.

When I say foil I'm not thinking of aluminium foil you use for cooking I was wondering about those emergency foil blankets that have foil on one side.. what if I bought a load of large foil emergency blankets to cover the crates with for me and the dog to hide in one each? ..or if hiding behind the sofa... could make some kind of 'roof' with blankets then put the foil ones (foil side facing up towards the ceiling) on the top of the 'roof'. One side of us would be the inner wall (between lounge and bedroom) the other side of us would be the thick leather sofa (it is a big huge electric corner sofa, though of course I'd unplug it first before hiding behind it!)

Now say by some miracle me and the dog survived the initial nuking from hiding behind the sofa or something!... I'm guessing I wouldn't even be able to let him out for a quick pee under the car porch without us risking exposure to radiation? (making note to add large 'kitty litter tray' type thing to emergency supplies!) would it be safe to emerge from under the den to nip to the loo? to find some of food form emergency supplies? (in my bedroom wardrobe where the 'big back door' is)

This is probably a futile 'hypothetical' exercise if it really happened that fast but humour me here! This is a preppers forum after all, if you lot don't know.. no-one else will!

p.s this sounds daft but would it be safe to have the TV plugged in to be able to watch for any news (I need the subtitles as deaf and can't hear a radio) assuming anyone survived to be able to broadcast to tell any survivors what to do, where emergency supplies were being distributed , how to contact someone for help orwhen it was safe to come out etc). Would phone and broadband signals still work? or would I just have to sit tight and see if anyone more able survived who was coming round looking for survivors?

when would it be safe to leave our 'den' but not the house (to move around the house blocking other windows, to use the loo, to make food etc as doubt would get enough notice to do them all beforehand) when would it be safe to open the door to let the dog pee under the car porch quickly (on lead so he doesn't take so long) and how long would be safe ie less than 5 mins if he just runs to fences pee's then runs back in or after 2 weeks would it be safe to let him in the back garden to take his time or would it be safe after 2 weeks for us to venture out in the community to see if there were any other survivors? to see if I could get to my brothers house to see if he and his partner had survived? if he hadn't already made it to me by then).

I don't know anything about radiation but have brief memories of seeing a child running down a road (on TV) after the chernobyl incident and seeing a story of a guy who was still alive living in a high radiation area in one country (can't remember which now) cos he stayed behind to look after the animals when everyone else had evacuated, so if you survived the initial blast is there a chance that you would still live a while? (though possible having more chance of getting cancer?)

The original idea if I remember rightly was to place doors against the wall at an angle, cover with carpet and place bags of earth or heavy stuff on top.
The idea is the thicker the cover, the more effective it is at stopping radiation. All well and good, but I watched greenpeace or one of those organisations having a competition in Bristol at some big event, they had all the stuff ready and had to build the shelter in the 4 minutes, I cant remember if they did it or not but in any case most of have our doors in the frames and dont have a load of filled sand bags handy.

Heres a link to the old protect and survive booklet. Might give you some ideas.

http://www.atomica.co.uk/main.htm

[itsybitsy]

Unless some CCTV footage appears of old Vlad riding through Salisbury topless on his horse

Now there's an image for you!

With the addition of Kathy Griffin in the background. Two for the price of one!

[katilea]

Hypothetically...going by that video where they used doors covered with heavy fabrics etc...would I be safe behind a thick leather sofa, (if I found some way to make a 'roof' and cover it with foil) the wall behind it being the wall between the lounge and bedroom? There is a window in that room so I'd have to find a way to cover it (though the curtains are a thick heavy suede material if I could get them closed, usually leave them open as there's blinds also in that window) but the bedroom has a big door in (emergency fire exit to get out with wheelchair) which would be alot harder to cover and the curtains are a lighter cotton so maybe not offer as much protection? (no blinds in bedroom as its a back door and would be too much of a faff with having to let the dog out so often usually)

The only other place would be in the hallway with all the doors to the other room shut but of course the front door is at the end so I'd have to plug the gaps under it and the side where it locks (at the bottom) as for some reason when the wood shrinks it shrinks the most there! No idea how I'd build a den in there though. Other thought was to cover the dogs crates in foil and hide in there (he's got one wire, one fabric crate. I wouldn't be able to move the wire crate so we'd have to hide in the spare room where that is and block that window (which is the smallest window in the house, but very light cotton curtains, no lining) The lounge has the thickest curtains and blinds in that window and the big thick leather sofa to hide behind and the inner wall on the other side of me.

When I say foil I'm not thinking of aluminium foil you use for cooking I was wondering about those emergency foil blankets that have foil on one side.. what if I bought a load of large foil emergency blankets to cover the crates with for me and the dog to hide in one each? ..or if hiding behind the sofa... could make some kind of 'roof' with blankets then put the foil ones (foil side facing up towards the ceiling) on the top of the 'roof'. One side of us would be the inner wall (between lounge and bedroom) the other side of us would be the thick leather sofa (it is a big huge electric corner sofa, though of course I'd unplug it first before hiding behind it!)

Now say by some miracle me and the dog survived the initial nuking from hiding behind the sofa or something!... I'm guessing I wouldn't even be able to let him out for a quick pee under the car porch without us risking exposure to radiation? (making note to add large 'kitty litter tray' type thing to emergency supplies!) would it be safe to emerge from under the den to nip to the loo? to find some of food form emergency supplies? (in my bedroom wardrobe where the 'big back door' is)

This is probably a futile 'hypothetical' exercise if it really happened that fast but humour me here! This is a preppers forum after all, if you lot don't know.. no-one else will!

p.s this sounds daft but would it be safe to have the TV plugged in to be able to watch for any news (I need the subtitles as deaf and can't hear a radio) assuming anyone survived to be able to broadcast to tell any survivors what to do, where emergency supplies were being distributed , how to contact someone for help orwhen it was safe to come out etc). Would phone and broadband signals still work? or would I just have to sit tight and see if anyone more able survived who was coming round looking for survivors?

when would it be safe to leave our 'den' but not the house (to move around the house blocking other windows, to use the loo, to make food etc as doubt would get enough notice to do them all beforehand) when would it be safe to open the door to let the dog pee under the car porch quickly (on lead so he doesn't take so long) and how long would be safe ie less than 5 mins if he just runs to fences pee's then runs back in or after 2 weeks would it be safe to let him in the back garden to take his time or would it be safe after 2 weeks for us to venture out in the community to see if there were any other survivors? to see if I could get to my brothers house to see if he and his partner had survived? if he hadn't already made it to me by then).

I don't know anything about radiation but have brief memories of seeing a child running down a road (on TV) after the chernobyl incident and seeing a story of a guy who was still alive living in a high radiation area in one country (can't remember which now) cos he stayed behind to look after the animals when everyone else had evacuated, so if you survived the initial blast is there a chance that you would still live a while? (though possible having more chance of getting cancer?)

The original idea if I remember rightly was to place doors against the wall at an angle, cover with carpet and place bags of earth or heavy stuff on top.
The idea is the thicker the cover, the more effective it is at stopping radiation. All well and good, but I watched greenpeace or one of those organisations having a competition in Bristol at some big event, they had all the stuff ready and had to build the shelter in the 4 minutes, I cant remember if they did it or not but in any case most of have our doors in the frames and dont have a load of filled sand bags handy.

Heres a link to the old protect and survive booklet. Might give you some ideas.

http://www.atomica.co.uk/main.htm

Surely the thickness of a huge corner leather sofa would offer you SOME protection? There's no way I'm gonna be able to remove all the doors! ..but surely it would be safer to have the doors closed to reduce radiation coming in any other cracks in other parts of house if you could say insulate one room?

Also ..I'm not sure if this idea works with radiation but you know how white reflects heat and black is meant to soak it up? .. in theory would hanging several thick white duvets in the window (or taping them to the glass panes to fill the window area) offer any protection? ...like reflect the radiation back out out of that window area?

[katilea]

There's a good chance I wouldn't survive the initial blast but if I did, I'd be lit up like a Readybrek kid.

If by some miracle I'd manage to swerve the above, I'll welcome our new overlords. What about you comrades ?

I think I'll be swimming back to Ireland

Capture2 (Medium).PNG

Another thought.... how do you know he'd send so many at once? I think he's probably got psychopathic/sociopathic tendencies (most world leaders seem to have!) if he kills everyone at once he's not going to be able to 'enjoy' watching the country die a slow painful death it would all be over so fast. I think he'd aim one on parliament to get back at TM for daring to accuse him of poisoning those agents and sending some russians home!

I also think he'd save a few nukes for North Korea and the US as I'm assuming the US air force would deploy too if he attacked the UK? I think he'd get more satisfaction from selecting a few specific major targets (such as parliament/white house etc) and watching the rest of us (any survivors left) fighting over resources and killing each other and trying to survive in a country with no govt/royalty/leaders left cos he bombed them all first!

Also if he sends so many at once isn't he going to risk shockwaves causing huge Tsunami's, setting off volcano's, earthquakes, avalanches etc if he triggers all those at once too then there's more chance Russia would be destroyed too and he wouldn't get chance to watch the rest of the world suffer cos they'd all be killed too? It wouldn't fulfil his psychopathic tendencies if he was destroyed before he got chance to watch the rest of the world suffering from his bombings etc.

[ukpreppergrrl]

From my reading on the subject of nuclear bombs the bottom line is if you are at ground zero, if you get any warning at all, the only thing you can do is kiss your arse goodbye. Sayonara baby. For a 10 megaton bomb Ground Zero is a 2 mile area around the impact crater. Outside Ground Zero (and that includes me, even though I live in inner London if this mythical bomb were dropped on, say, The Houses of Parliament) do not dismiss the much maligned "duck and cover" mantra of the 80s. Your first thing to deal with is the flash. Do not look at it, cover your eyes, turn your back. Whilst you're doing that you might want to run (keep as low as possible - your chances of surviving a blast from any sort of bomb are increased by 50% if you simply lie down as oppose to stand up - aka "duck") to get behind something as solid as possible (i.e. on the opposite side from the blast) because the next thing you have to deal with is the 11 second heat wave. Evidence from Nagasaki and Hiroshima showed that even ordinary clothing protected the skin from burns. There are even photos of scorched telegraph poles with un-scorched leaf marks on them - so a humble leaf between the blast and the pole was enough to protect. This is the "cover" part. Cover your skin, hair and yourself as much as possible. I'm not saying you won't get any burns, but the whole fireball thing occurs at Ground Zero, not outside Ground Zero.

Assuming you've survived the initial impact, the flash and the heat wave, you now have about 30 minutes before the radioactive dust starts to fall. Use those 30 minutes to get as much dense material (e.g. soil, bricks) between you and the dust fallout as possible. The further the dust is away from you the better. The recommendation is a basement, but if you don't have a basement a room in your house with no windows. I you're in a tower block somewhere above the second floor and below the top floor is recommended (as dust will settle on the ground outside and on the roof of the block). Failing all that, create a room within a room using doors, sofas, books. Tape plastic over your windows, doors and chimneys to prevent the ingress of dust. It is contact with the dust that you have to prevent, it is the dust that contains the radiation. Foil is not required save as something to be taped over a hole to prevent dust ingress.

Incidentally, at this point the whole "I'd rather die than survive a nuclear bomb" is a moot point - you have survived. If you do not protect yourself from the dust then you will most likely die, but it will not be quick and it will not be pleasant. So personally at this point I'd say give it everything you've got! You should also get your food, water and sanitation equipment in that covered area as you will be there for a while. Who gets the radioactive dust landing on them is dependent on the weather. If the bomb gets dropped this weekend then we have a mini Beast from the East so the dust will move Westwards from ground zero. Normally our weather comes from the West so the dust is most likely to move Eastwards from Ground Zero.

The good news is that the radioactive half life is quite short (1 hour). So within 24 hours the dust is significantly less radioactive. The recommended isolation in your dust free hole is 10 days to 2 weeks. During that time if you really, really have to leave your hidey-hole (definitely not within the first 48 hours) you should wear plastic ponchos, foot protectors etc. and when you come back in you should either leave the items in an "airlock" type doorway, or have a showering facility in the doorway. The idea again is to prevent bringing the radioactive dust into your protected area. After two weeks it is deemed that the radiation levels in the dust will be low enough not to cause illness.

Obviously during those two weeks of isolation it is possible there will be electricity running if it can be routed from a part of the country that is unaffected and where people can still go out to work, and assuming you are far enough away from Ground Zero for your infrastructure not to have been affected. Ditto gas, phones etc..

My information is taken largely from Peter Laurie's: Beneath The City Streets (2nd edition) which I really recommend; the Protect and Survive booklets issued in the 80s (pdfs available online); the 1974 Nuclear Weapons booklet from the Home Office; and some online sites.

EDIT: forgot to mention my timings are based on you being close enough to Ground Zero to "see" what's happened. e.g. if you are 75 miles from Ground Zero you have more than 30 minutes to take cover from the dust and you probably won't be affected by the flash and heat

[ukpreppergrrl]

Another thought.... how do you know he'd send so many at once? I think he's probably got psychopathic/sociopathic tendencies (most world leaders seem to have!) if he kills everyone at once he's not going to be able to 'enjoy' watching the country die a slow painful death it would all be over so fast. I think he'd aim one on parliament to get back at TM for daring to accuse him of poisoning those agents and sending some russians home!

I also think he'd save a few nukes for North Korea and the US as I'm assuming the US air force would deploy too if he attacked the UK? I think he'd get more satisfaction from selecting a few specific major targets (such as parliament/white house etc) and watching the rest of us (any survivors left) fighting over resources and killing each other and trying to survive in a country with no govt/royalty/leaders left cos he bombed them all first!

Also if he sends so many at once isn't he going to risk shockwaves causing huge Tsunami's, setting off volcano's, earthquakes, avalanches etc if he triggers all those at once too then there's more chance Russia would be destroyed too and he wouldn't get chance to watch the rest of the world suffer cos they'd all be killed too? It wouldn't fulfil his psychopathic tendencies if he was destroyed before he got chance to watch the rest of the world suffering from his bombings etc.

Katilea, I really recommend getting hold of a copy of Peter Laurie's: Beneath The City Streets (2nd edition). It's actually quite a reassuring book - Ground Zero excepting! I don't know if you are my age and remember being scared shitless in the 80s by films like Threads, but it transpires that such a scenario is highly unlikely and the whole purpose of the film was to push forward nuclear disarmament (not making a political judgement on this, just stating). In the book he goes into the various political/military strategies of Counter Strike and Counter Force. He also explains the difference between nuclear/atomic/hydrogen bombs and how they do and don't kill/damage. Always remember that just because it is possible to set off all the bombs at once, it is highly, highly, highly unlikely that they will be set off all at once. Take a deep breath. Do some reading. And always remember neither Nagasaki nor Hiroshima and definitely not the whole of Japan became permanent post-apocalyptic wastelands after having nuclear bombs dropped on them.

[katilea]

From my reading on the subject of nuclear bombs the bottom line is if you are at ground zero, if you get any warning at all, the only thing you can do is kiss your arse goodbye. Sayonara baby. For a 10 megaton bomb Ground Zero is a 2 mile area around the impact crater. Outside Ground Zero (and that includes me, even though I live in inner London if this mythical bomb were dropped on, say, The Houses of Parliament) do not dismiss the much maligned "duck and cover" mantra of the 80s. Your first thing to deal with is the flash. Do not look at it, cover your eyes, turn your back. Whilst you're doing that you might want to run (keep as low as possible - your chances of surviving a blast from any sort of bomb are increased by 50% if you simply lie down as oppose to stand up - aka "duck") to get behind something as solid as possible (i.e. on the opposite side from the blast) because the next thing you have to deal with is the 11 second heat wave. Evidence from Nagasaki and Hiroshima showed that even ordinary clothing protected the skin from burns. There are even photos of scorched telegraph poles with un-scorched leaf marks on them - so a humble leaf between the blast and the pole was enough to protect. This is the "cover" part. Cover your skin, hair and yourself as much as possible. I'm not saying you won't get any burns, but the whole fireball thing occurs at Ground Zero, not outside Ground Zero.

Assuming you've survived the initial impact, the flash and the heat wave, you now have about 30 minutes before the radioactive dust starts to fall. Use those 30 minutes to get as much dense material (e.g. soil, bricks) between you and the dust fallout as possible. The recommendation is a basement, but if you don't have a basement a room in your house with no windows. I you're in a tower block somewhere above the second floor and below the top floor is recommended (as dust will settle on the ground outside and on the roof of the block). Failing all that, create a room within a room using doors, sofas, books. Tape plastic over your windows, doors and chimneys to prevent the ingress of dust. It is contact with the dust that you have to prevent, it is the dust that contains the radiation. Foil is not required save as something to be taped over a hole to prevent dust ingress.

Incidentally, at this point the whole "I'd rather die than survive a nuclear bomb" is a moot point - you have survived. If you do not protect yourself from the dust then you will most likely die, but it will not be quick and it will not be pleasant. So personally at this point I'd say give it everything you've got! You should also get your food, water and sanitation equipment in that covered area as you will be there for a while. Who gets the radioactive dust landing on them is dependent on the weather. If the bomb gets dropped this weekend then we have a mini Beast from the East so the dust will move Westwards from ground zero. Normally our weather comes from the West so the dust is most likely to move Eastwards from Ground Zero.

The good news is that the radioactive half life is quite short. So within 24 hours the dust is significantly less radioactive. The recommended isolation in your dust free hole is 10 days to 2 weeks. During that time if you really, really have to leave your hidey-hole (definitely not within the first 48 hours) you should wear plastic ponchos, foot protectors etc. and when you come back in you should either leave the items in an "airlock" type doorway, or have a showering facility in the doorway. The idea again is to prevent bringing the radioactive dust into your protected area. After two weeks it is deemed that the radiation levels in the dust will be low enough not to cause illness.

Obviously during those two weeks of isolation it is possible there will be electricity running if it can be routed from a part of the country that is unaffected and where people can still go out to work, and assuming you are far enough away from Ground Zero for your infrastructure not to have been affected. Ditto gas, phones etc..

My information is taken largely from Peter Laurie's: Beneath The City Streets (2nd edition) which I really recommend; the Protect and Survive booklets issued in the 80s (pdfs available online); the 1974 Nuclear Weapons booklet from the Home Office; and some online sites.

EDIT: forgot to mention my timings are based on you being close enough to Ground Zero to "see" what's happened. e.g. if you are 75 miles from Ground Zero you have more than 30 minutes to take cover from the dust and you probably won't be affected by the flash and heat

I'm over 180 miles from Houses of Parliament, just googled, so if they did only target HOP/London and that was Ground Zero what are my odds on surviving if I hide me and the dog behind the sofa and cover the windows? and how long before we can crawl out to go pee? ..lol It like to be prepared for all eventualities!

I'll look for that book as I was going to order the Stephen Hawking one (not that I'm expecting to understand it, but as a show of support for a great scientist and brave man) RIP Stephen ...maybe he can push a black hole Putin's way to swallow him and save us all!

Edited to add.... if its contact with the dust thats the issue, would my dog be safe going to pee under a car porch where the underneath was clear from dust? usually if it snows the snow is up the top of the drive and stops where the roof from the 'car porch' starts at the front..with a bit of snow round the edges where neighbours fence and my back fence is, so I'm assuming dust would settle the same??? (assuming there's no strong winds..in which case its like a wind tunnel under there!) The back garden would be covered in dust right up to the back door so I think my front room would be safer than my bedroom if its dust I'm trying to avoid. his old puppy pens/dog gates/the bins (which are well underneath and shouldn't get any dust on them) could be used to make 'walls' inside the underneath of the car porch where there was no dust for a 'toilet area' for him.

Wondering whether to splash out on one of those 25 yr emergency rations kits that could be eaten hot or cold in an emergency! ..as not sure gas camping stoves (camping bistro 300 stove I think) would be safe to use in a sealed room/den! ..the dog's got several months stash of kibble and treats so he's fine until the radiation risk is over (if it happened sooner rather than later)! Assuming it won't be safe to open the windows aren't we going to suffocate after 2 weeks in a sealed room??