Firearms for defensive purposes? - A good link

[KalPrep]

And yet there is obviously a difficulty in them obtaining them now.....

[12mp82]

And yet there is obviously a difficulty in them obtaining them now.....

Am I missing something here, What is the difficulty? If I want a firearm I can get one, where is the difficulty arising? Just have to have a justifiable reason to have one, and self/home defence is not a justifiable reason in the UK, I have no problem with that. Who is the them?

[KalPrep]

Apologies, criminals.

I don't disagree with having gun control laws, not in the slightest. However this thread started around firearms for self defense and possible use after SHTF.

Right now, your common, law abiding citizen say in the city could not obtain a firearm for protection or other (what preppers may consider preparation ) purposes. Sure those in the sticks or with land holding have zero problem obtaining a FAC.

However, it is apparent that the criminal fraternity have increasing access to fire arms and post a SHTF event your common man is at a serious disadvantage in maintaining compliance with the current law.

Apologies if my angle wasn't clear enough, I was trying to get the thread back to where it started in relation to the obtaining and use of firearms for self defense purposes, in on this forum, post SHTF when the ROL most probably isn't present.

[itsybitsy]

Apologies if my angle wasn't clear enough, I was trying to get the thread back to where it started in relation to the obtaining and use of firearms for self defense purposes, in on this forum, post SHTF when the ROL most probably isn't present.

It was perfectly clear to me. Like you, I don't see how any confusion could have crept in...

[Plymtom]

I wasn't confused either, my opinion is fluid on the question the link and associated forum, I find it interesting, and sat on the fence I can understand where they are comming from, but there are pros and cons which mean I couldn't join it (the forum) I am here because I don't mind being labeled a prepper (not a doomsday one) to be there would look like an endorsement of something I merely had a will to debate, not a cast iron opinion.

[12mp82]

Ah, ok, I thought we were talking about realistic prepping stuff

[KalPrep]

Hehe, not everything SHTF is doomsday. Severe weather etc could get us to a position where people are pushed over the edge. With the financial situation as is, further price hikes, cuts in support and then something like a really bad weather front lasting for a few weeks could have local turmoil happening.

Given the criminal element probably aren't into the prepping way of life (a big assumption I know), when the shops are bare and the food is gone, you can bet your bottom dollar burglary, theft etc will go through the roof and those with firearms will more than likely use them.

[modplod]

To further complicate the discussion (which incidently is very adult and balanced - Thank you):

If I really wanted to hurt my fellow citizens (people I don't know and have never met), I might use the following impliments to inflict grevious injury:

1. My car - capable of inflicting lethal injury on a true mass scale by simply driving at speed through a shopping mall!

2. Merely go to any kitchen drawer and take out the largest carving knife and simply walk around stabbing as many people as possible!

Our existing laws allow almost anyone to own and drive a car and in the case of knives, we all have them in our kitchens...

The point I'm trying to make here is that if someone is determined to hurt innocent people they will do so with whatever tool is at hand.

Are we going to ever consider carrying out the same kind of checks on people who seek to drive or to use a simple knife? No of course we aren't. This would be dis-proportional to the risk.

It's the person that kills NOT the tool used (firearm in this case). Providing someone can prove good character, I see no reason why in this country personal defence can't be used to obtain an FAC.

In the past, there have been ISOLATED tragic & shocking occasions when legally held firearms have been used to inflict harm on people (Hungerford, Cumbria, Dunblane etc). In ALL these instances after exhaustive investigation it has become apparent that the firearms holder did in fact have a history of bad character. On the last occasion (Cumbria), the despicable murderer Derek Bird had previous interactions with the police regarding theft from his former workplace. This revolting chap should have had his FAC revoked there and then. I think there have been other similar cases where legally held firearms have been used by persons who should have had this privelage taken away.

The police national computer (PNC) is a pretty powerful impliment in this respect but only if it's used wisely (by the right people). There are a whole raft of intelligence databases which can be used to good effect but these must all be linked together to be of value when determining whether someone should be permitted to possess lethal firearms.

As I see it, this is clear evidence that the police have utterly failed in their duty to protect the public they are supposed to serve!

I know that I'm utterly incapable of inflicting terror and hurt on my fellow innocent citizens by resorting to gun violence. I would NEVER betray my fellow FAC/SGC holders by using my firearms unlawfully. In my case, I'd blow my own head off before I harmed innocent people. I'm confident all other SGC/FAC will feel exactly the same in this respect. I consider my SGC/FAC to be badge a of honour and testiment to my good character (anyone can obtain a CRB check, not everyone can obtain one of these).

There are over 3 million privately held shotguns and firearms in this country and the figures clearly show that if the police do their job properly the risk to public remains very low indeed compared to places like the USA.

Wicked & evil people should NEVER be trusted to possess lethal firearmsand if the system works right the public will not be put at undue risk.

The way we're going you will need a permit to own a kitchen knife for your kitchen!

As I have said elsewhere, it's all about showing US whose boss. The nanny PC state rules supreme.

[Attack Warning Red]

I think the law, as it is on guns, is fine.

We really don't want to make buying guns as easy as it is in the US, unless we want the gun murder rate of the US also. Look at the ridiculous murder rate when compared with other first-World countries.

[KalPrep]

Modplod, great post!

AWR, and yet when you look at Canada they have a higher guns per person than the US (if I remember Bowling for Columbine correctly) and yet they have a similar gun crime rate to us..... The situation is obviously more complicated than just how many guns there are...