2020 Potential Economic Collapse

[Arwen Thebard]

Sorry folks, working links below;
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/circl ... l-currency
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fed-s ... 1597352302
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... lity-study
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... l-currency
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cryptoruble.asp
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/12/china-d ... ttery.html

[Arwen Thebard]

[/quote]Be interested in your take on this Arwen - https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/ ... eat-reset/

I've not had time to do other than skim, but it fits with what you're saying. I will not move to digital or credit cards or contactless or whatever gimmick they come up with next. And I can't help thinking I'm not the only one.
[/quote]

I think this was also floated at Davos2019/20 meetings and has been commented on by the world bank and bank for international settlements [BIS] so some important people are giving it air time and credibility. Sounds a bit like the "Problem, Reaction, Solution" way of TPTB getting what they want doesn't it?

I dont think we will get offered the choice though, digital currencies are coming in and cash is going out whether we like it or not.

[redskies]

Just because it's there doesn't mean I have to use it. Yes, I am stubborn, bloody minded, intractable & utterly relentless!
The latest articles about the virus surviving up to 28 days on modern bank notes seem to fit this narrative/plan as well.

Barter still exists. And there will be more, I think, if they get rid of cash.

[Lemne]

If they ban currency produced by the Bank of England then another currency will develop. Barter will come back stronger as not many self employed people are going to want to have to use the bank for all their income.

[jansman]

Just because it's there doesn't mean I have to use it. Yes, I am stubborn, bloody minded, intractable & utterly relentless!
The latest articles about the virus surviving up to 28 days on modern bank notes seem to fit this narrative/plan as well.

Barter still exists. And there will be more, I think, if they get rid of cash.

The Covid on banknotes is a little misleading; It was an experiment done at optimum’Covid’ temperature, and in the dark.

Cash will be here for the foreseeable future. Today the main electricity cable into the trading estate my daughters factory is on,was cut through by a JCB. That was 7.30 am. 4 pm today still not live! She says they have lost almost a million pounds worth of production today! And that is one out of several hundred factories and units up there. No microwave for warming lunch, so out to the burger van and convenience store on the edge of the estate...and they are only taking cash!

[grenfell]

I dont think we will get offered the choice though, digital currencies are coming in and cash is going out whether we like it or not.
[/quote]

I think it's safe to say we disagree on several things but on that point i will agree. It's not going to happen overnight and as Jansman says cash is here to stay for the foreseeable future although is that ten years or fifty? Covid has probably speeded things up.
When i first started work in the early '80's the firm i was with was just starting paying by bank transfer and us newbies were paid by cheque until the system was set up. One guy in particular didn't want to be paid in any other way but cash and used the 1899 trucking act to demand his wages in cash. I'm pretty certain that law has been scrapped now but even with it in place he found that the wages department made a lot of "mistakes" forgetting to pay overtime , or bonus or travelling money and in the end he accepted his wages paid into the bank rather than put up with all the hassel. And that's how the move to using less cash will go i think , more hassel , more difficulties , less convenience in using cash. We see it already with some bills costing more to pay by cash and some places not taking it at all.
It's only in the last decade that i've been self employed and have received part of my income in cash. I have a number of customers who use bank transfer or cheque and i've also done some work via barter but i would take the idea of a widespread barter economy with a pinch of salt. Take jansman's example of the burger van. What are you going to barter for that burger and then what is the owner of the van going to barter to his suppliers ? We talked about UBI which i doubt would ever have a physical form , that would probably be entirely digital and to be pragmatic about it how many would turn it down just because it was digital?

[diamond lil]

The reality I think will be a mix of everything. Some barter, some cash, some bank card stuff. You barter where you can and you fork out some dosh when it's appropriate and the rest of the time you accept whatever you get given.

[grenfell]

I think you're right in that there will be a mixture although i still have doubts as to how much barter there will be. If a lot of people are switching to cashless transactions for largely convenience reasons then it's going to be unlikely they will turn to barter which is in reality a less convenient and far more clunky method of payment. Also in reality if most of my customers were to use digital payments i'd be only be spiteing myself to refuse it.

[jansman]

There is no doubt that digital is here to stay,and will continue to forge ahead of cash.We saw a lot of our customers switch to contactless payment because they were scared into it because of Covid.Now we are starting to see more cash again.Not just amongst older folks either,as we have a student population nearby.

They will ask, " is cash ok? " ( NEVER thought I would hear that!), and we will say yes. I will always tell them I prefer readies too,and nearly every person will say that they manage their money better when it is in the form of cash.

[grenfell]

Going slightly off topic here jansman , but i've noticed a distinct lack of £5 notes recently. Plenty of £20's and while i haven't seen it a friend has said about £10 notes becoming less prevalent. We put it down to people getting their cash via machines that serve mostly 20's , a couple of 10's but no 5's. Have you noticed any lack of fivers?