Bug out bag

[MBJ]

Regarding the axe/hatchet situation - Go Outdoors just reduced the price of the Bear Grylls Gerber Hatcher. I just bought one for £22.50. Very pleased.

This?


I'd prefer to have something longer for the weight. 21oz and 9 1/2 inches long for an axe ?

I agree with ForgeCorvus.

Personally, if you're going to take an axe then take a proper axe! Not something that'll only cut through twigs and small branches if you're lucky. The lightest large axes weigh in around 1000g with the SFA being slightly heavier at 1200g and the Ray Mears Wilderness Axe slightly more than that at 1400g. Of course if you wanted to you could go completely mental and get a Gransfors Bruks Large Splitting Axe which is 70 cm / 27.5' long and weighs 2200g. The Bear Grylls Gerber Hatchet weighs 680g and is only 9.5 inches long. You may as well get something 300g heavier which is more than twice the length and will do the job twice as good.

[dangerman]

It suits my needs. I'm not going to be living in the woods, I'll probably be bedding down with my family in a group if we ever left in a rush, or we'd have loaded up the caravan and headed somewhere safe.

This little axe isn't going to take down a redwood, but it will help prepare firewood and make a shelter if you got bored in the garden.

Look at the size of it though, I'll never know I'm carrying it. It's also full tang so I won't be dropping the point on my head.

[Plymtom]

I don't really want to jump on a band wagon of giving someone a hard time over potentially poor choices, and yet it has to be said, heavy duty tools and tools designed for specific jobs if you are doing that job a lot are a must, if you have trouble believing that then try doing your domestic cooking with your bushcraft knives for a few days, I have and only the thinnest and sharpest ones like a new Mora go half way to doing a good job, the same would go for processing wood with your kitchen gear, similarly no matter how well built or designed a multi tool will get you out of trouble, but it will not be comfortable with many of the tasks it can do, nor will it stand constant heavy use.

Then we have axes/hatchets both are similar and yet different horses for courses, both look easy and yet neither are, they require skill to work efficiently and safely so be careful out there

Watch a tradesman, I was an electrician and it's fair to say we often lean toward a tool we use lots to do jobs it isn't designed for side cutters become perfect pincers, bottle openers etc, because we are "at one" with them, my dad ( a butcher) could do things with a big meat cleaver and his butcher's knives which unnerved me almost to the " I can't look" point and he was old school ( Like Jansman I suspect) from an age where chain mail gloves and kevlar just were not thought of and skill levels were so high that other than very minor nicks were rare. Watching a skilled person at work is a sight to witness and to be honest something that as we get older we take so much for granted that when we see inexperienced people trying stuff out, it can come as a shock.

Another thing I'll throw into the hat is that there does seem to be a perfect tool even from a dozen axes for example, if you could pick them all up and try them one after the other it would be like Harry Potter's wand where one will stand out above the rest as the one for you, and returning to the OP bug out bags - rucksacks are the same no matter how good, how well designed or durable they may be it'll still be like Dolly Parton wearing Lindsey Lohan's clothes if its not sized to suit your body, for my part I'm finding some particularly smaller ones very uncomfortable, it's almost like shoes if money were no object ( and I'm going rush 72 because my son has one and I like it) for any bag a shop like sports direct with a huge selection is the place to go and wear what you would want to be wearing when using it too as that makes a difference too, you may find a summer and a winter version a must because you're essentially a different shape dressed for the cold.

I'm still going as cheap as chips ebay stuff for HOBs or anything not expected to get much use, but for every day or frequent use I want something good, and comfortable, truth be known I could do with a 2.5 ton truck for all the crap I'd want to bug out with and an army of Sherpa's to carry it all (including me )

[jaffab]

Here's a thought, and just putting it out there....

You can skin and butcher a deer with a ruddy great axe, and you could chop down a small tree with a bush craft knife. Most tools can do the same job (they are all blades after all), but some tools are better suited to the job. This is in some part to the quality of the finished job, but also how hard they make the job... How long the task will take.

From my simple POV, it comes down to 5 issues...
1) Weight. I could put in my Bob a full tool kit, but I would not be able to carry it. Compromise is needed when you intend to walk 12 miles with the load on your back
2) Versatility. My hatchet has a reinforced hollow handle. So it starts off small and light, but I could shape a branch into the Handel and then I would get a better swing
3) Visability. A hatchet will fit in your bag, a full axe won't. Walking down the street, you will no longer look like Mr Grey, but will look fully equipped.
4) Is there really a need? Why would you be cutting down a big tree? Unlikley for firewood, more likley for shelter etc. But your packing a tent. Firewood is better with dead wood and small branches
5) Time and effort. Yes, so having a ruddy great axe will mean you can cu down a 1 foot tree in 20 minutes rather than an hour or two with a hatchet. But I think one of the biggest issues in a BO situation is going to be boredom. Maybe doing things quickly is not the best option.

[MBJ]

3) Visability. A hatchet will fit in your bag, a full axe won't. Walking down the street, you will no longer look like Mr Grey, but will look fully equipped.

5) Time and effort. Yes, so having a ruddy great axe will mean you can cu down a 1 foot tree in 20 minutes rather than an hour or two with a hatchet. But I think one of the biggest issues in a BO situation is going to be boredom. Maybe doing things quickly is not the best option.

A 60cm axe will fit inside a large backpack.

I'd say preserving energy and expending the least amount of calories is more important. Please don't underestimate how many calories and fluids you expend when chopping wood. I say this as a Scout Leader who has split more logs than I care to think about.

The average adult male needs around 2400 - 2600 calories a day at rest to maintain their body weight. In a bug out situation that's already a tall order without adding in an inefficient axe.

There are 2 irrefutable laws with axes. The heavier the head, the more powerful it is and the longer it is the safer it will be. Basically, if you miss or overswing with a hatchet you might just bury it into your knee or foot.

[sethorly]

Hi MBJ - I like your bug out bag - it's a solid start - it looks like you're at a similar place to me with your preps. I can tell you've read a lot of this forum

Is it a 72 hr bag or an INCH bag?

If it's a 72 hr bag (I still don't understand what these are for really) then rather than a full axe and a bucksaw I'd go for a folding saw, then maybe if my bug out location wasn't far I'd consider a hatchet, or more probably a fiskars brush hook (added undergrowth-clearing (to get to hidden location) functionality over hatchet) (and ditch the large knife, bucksaw, bracelet saw, big axe). In that time frame, especially with travel, you're not going to have time to build any bushcraft/survival structures that require an axe.

If it's an INCH bag, then to my mind axes are interesting. Bushcrafters mostly seem to go for 18" axes as the ideal compromise between weight and functionality, but I think this is where bushcraft and prepping differ. Bushcraft is typically for up to a week with every intent to come home. INCH prepping is for much longer, so the right tools are needed, and this need imho takes precedence over grey-man considerations or even weight considerations. I've done a bit of research on this question and I think a 24" axe is the one to have for an INCH prep, as you would then be able to significantly-more efficiently provide materials for a structure.

I'd add a candle wick or similar and a small tub of vaseline to Combustion, better sharpening solutions for your knife and axe, and a large-volume plastic bag for carrying water from sources to camp.

To be honest, my INCH preps are leaning towards using a wheel barrow (seriously - think about it).

[MBJ]

Hi MBJ - I like your bug out bag - it's a solid start - it looks like you're at a similar place to me with your preps. I can tell you've read a lot of this forum

Is it a 72 hr bag or an INCH bag?

If it's a 72 hr bag (I still don't understand what these are for really) then rather than a full axe and a bucksaw I'd go for a folding saw, then maybe if my bug out location wasn't far I'd consider a hatchet, or more probably a fiskars brush hook (added undergrowth-clearing (to get to hidden location) functionality over hatchet) (and ditch the large knife, bucksaw, bracelet saw, big axe). In that time frame, especially with travel, you're not going to have time to build any bushcraft/survival structures that require an axe.

If it's an INCH bag, then to my mind axes are interesting. Bushcrafters mostly seem to go for 18" axes as the ideal compromise between weight and functionality, but I think this is where bushcraft and prepping differ. Bushcraft is typically for up to a week with every intent to come home. INCH prepping is for much longer, so the right tools are needed, and this need imho takes precedence over grey-man considerations or even weight considerations. I've done a bit of research on this question and I think a 24" axe is the one to have for an INCH prep, as you would then be able to significantly-more efficiently provide materials for a structure.

I'd add a candle wick or similar and a small tub of vaseline to Combustion, better sharpening solutions for your knife and axe, and a large-volume plastic bag for carrying water from sources to camp.

To be honest, my INCH preps are leaning towards using a wheel barrow (seriously - think about it).

The project started as a 72 hour bag but then quickly began to lean toward an INCH bag; I think if things have gotten so desperate that you're willing to make yourself a refugee then you're probably not going home any time soon, nor are you going to be finding anywhere suitable in 72 hours. A tent therefore is a portable temporary shelter ideal for when you're selecting a site for a more permanent shelter. And if there is a housefire it won't be hard to carry the gear to the nearest hotel anyway.

I agree about the care tools. It has been niggling at the back of my mind that a small sharpening pebble stone probably isn't good enough. Do you have any suggestions of decent ones? Although if I had enough time on my hands I might end up making one of these Celt stone age axes as a backup or to give to someone else I met. Of course it wouldn't be anywhere near as effective as a modern axe, but good enough for someone else to use and which I wouldn't mind giving away. You'd be surprised at how effective they are too, but then they must have worked for our ancestors or else we wouldn't be here today.



Good call on the candle wick and vaseline.

As for the plastic bag. I have looked into those folding water containers and even bought one to try out for my long term stores, but after about a week or two it began to leak from a hole in the bottom. I don't know if it was a bad one or not but since then I've been reluctant to use anything like that. Once again, have you got any good recommendations?

[shocker]

In a dire emergency with minimum kit a condom (NON lubricated or flavoured!) inside a sock, carefully stuffed into the side pocket of a bergen will do the job. Not an ideal, durable solution I know but it is easy to pack a few and easy enough to use. As I am sure you all know.

Myself I have been collecting the mylar, screw capped pouches that Sunny-D comes in. Washing them out, drying and storing for water carrying duty. Theres a few suppliers who sell them, theres a link on here somewhere that I followed, I think it was the people who do tinned butter...maybe

[jansman]

For an emergency water container, walk a hundred yards and pick up a discarded pop bottle!

Jaffab, can you really skin and butcher a deer with "a ruddy great axe"? I've done at least a couple in my career and it ain't a tool I've seen used for that particular job. I am with Plymtom on the use of tools there. You CAN make di in many cases, but a felling axe on a venison haunch...right!

[Jamesey1981]

The lansky puck is a nice stone for field sharpening axes, has a coarse and a fine side and as it's round it helps with keeping a convex grind, I've never needed the coarse side on mine as I sharpen my axes on Japanese water stones which give a good long lasting edge, all it needs in the field is a touch up.
You'll also most likely want a file as well if you're thinking long term, it makes it a lot easier to do any major reprofiling.

For knives, the fallkniven dc4 is very good, I have one for field sharpening, diamond side and ceramic side.

Neither are that expensive, you could sharpen a knife on the Puck if you can only have one, but you'd struggle to keep an axe in good condition with a stone the size of the DC4, you usually need a circular motion with an axe, (depending on how it's ground) it gives you a convex grind that bites well but isn't fragile.