fish antibiotics for humans

Medical and Healthcare
User avatar
Werecat
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:49 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: fish antibiotics for humans

Post by Werecat »

Do note that it is from New Zealand.

I dont know how restrictive NZ is with antibiotics, but it makes a lot of difference to antibiotic resistance whether you're in a country where most antibiotics can be had over the counter or in a country where they are stictly regulated and available only on prescription. As i can gather from the posts on the topic in here, antibiotics seems quite strictly controlled in the UK (as they are in Denmark), can anyone shed light to the degree of control in NZ?

Secondly resistance vary alot from region to region (in Denmark we still have different resistance patters, because we have no national antibiotic guidelines, only regional.). I have skimmed the chart, and quite a few places i would recommend simple penicillin instead, and in other cases i would change the doses (f.x. meningitis where i would recommend 5 MIE (3g) penicillin not 2 MIE (1,2g) as stated in the chart.

Bottom line, if not SHTF scenario, i would strongly recommend consulting your GP before trying to administer it yourself. In a SHTF scenario, the above chart gives some good pointers (even though since antibiotics might be going out of stock (fast), i think i would increase the indications for administering it (f.x. not administer amoxicillin to COPD exacerbation, until the patient had either fever or purulent sputum)).

Merry Christmas (nope i'm not celebrating x-mas by surfing uk-preppers, im just working and having a slow night.... so far. :roll: )
User avatar
DundeePrepper
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:42 am
Location: Dundee Area

Re: fish antibiotics for humans

Post by DundeePrepper »

DundeePrepper wrote: I wonder if there is anyone medically trained in this field on this forum that could confirm this is as absolutely correct. In a SHTF situation and its all that's available then count me in but until then there is no way I'm advocating this. I have a distant uncle who worked with veterinary drugs for a company called Vericore in Dundee. I'll ask him if he knows anything on the subject and get back to you all.
Also does anyone know someone personally who has taken these?
--

Ok so I spoke to the uncle in question.. and his opinion is YES! So long as there is a reputable manufacturer in place AND the serial numbers and identification number / colours of tablets match then you are good to go..
For me this is a solid gold guarantee that they ARE safe for human consumption.. but only in an emergency - if a doctor or A+E is available then use it.. why self prescribe when we have the best Health Service in the world.. (you can quote me on that at least haha :lol:)
Newbie Prepper
The ability to foresee is not reserved for Psychics and Lunatics. The mind is predisposed to see the future from its own past.
- Unknown Author
User avatar
DundeePrepper
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:42 am
Location: Dundee Area

Re: fish antibiotics for humans

Post by DundeePrepper »

Just wanted to add...
Amoxicillin (Aquarium version: FISH-MOX, FISH-MOX FORTE, AQUA-MOX): comes in 250mg and 500mg doses, usually taken 3 times a day. Amoxicillin is the most popular antibiotic prescribed to children, usually in liquid form. More versatile and better absorbed than the older Pencillins, Amoxicillin may be used for the following diseases:

· Anthrax (Prevention or treatment of Cutaneous transmission)
· Chlamydia Infection (sexually transmitted)
· Urinary Tract Infection (bladder/kidney infections)
· Helicobacter pylori Infection (causes peptic ulcer)
· Lyme Disease (transmitted by ticks)
· Otitis Media (middle ear infection)
· Pneumonia (lung infection)
· Sinusitis
· Skin or Soft Tissue Infection (cellulitis, boils)
· Actinomycosis (causes abscesses in humans and livestock)
· Bronchitis
· Tonsillitis/Pharyngitis (Strep throat)

Source: http://beforeitsnews.com/self-sufficien ... 45784.html
Newbie Prepper
The ability to foresee is not reserved for Psychics and Lunatics. The mind is predisposed to see the future from its own past.
- Unknown Author
User avatar
Werecat
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:49 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: fish antibiotics for humans

Post by Werecat »

[Geek mode]
Just wanted to add...
Amoxicillin (Aquarium version: FISH-MOX, FISH-MOX FORTE, AQUA-MOX): comes in 250mg and 500mg doses, usually taken 3 times a day. Amoxicillin is the most popular antibiotic prescribed to children, usually in liquid form. More versatile and better absorbed than the older Pencillins, Amoxicillin may be used for the following diseases:
I'm glad you wrote may. Amoxicillin is a broadspectrum penicillin, with a spectrum roughly matching ampicillin. Ie. it will cover most G positive bacteria (streptococcus and enterococcus and families) with no aquired resistance, ie. the same bacteria as penicillin. It will however also cover a small part of gram negative bacteria (mainly E.coli) that penicillin doesn't. Being a broadspectrum antibiotic, it is more likely to induce resistance and more likely to upset your bowel bacteria than a narrow spectrum.

It is promiscuous use of broadspectrum antibiotics in human and animals that is the main concern in evolving multi- (or pan-)resistant bacteria. :!:

Disclaimer: the below recommendations are based on Danish resistance patterns. But the resistance mechanics are the same, so the overall point is valid.

· Anthrax (Prevention or treatment of Cutaneous transmission). Use penicillin instead. If its sensitive to amoxicillin its sensitive to penicillin.
· Chlamydia Infection (sexually transmitted) Use Azithromycin it is a one dose treatment instead of taking amoxicillin for a week.
· Urinary Tract Infection (bladder/kidney infections). Use Sulfamethizol instead. It is filtered to the urine faster and therefor more effective with UTI's .
· Helicobacter pylori Infection (causes peptic ulcer) NO, its a part of a triplet of medicin (2XAB & 1XPPI) required to treat H. pylori. You cant use just one antibiotic to treat it.
· Lyme Disease (transmitted by ticks). I'd recommend penicillin instead. I know amoxicillin i 1st choice for treatment in many places, but thats based on flawed bioavailability trials in rodents.
· Otitis Media (middle ear infection) yup. I agree, but (you knew it would come) mostly otitis media should not be treated with antibiotics. Only in high fever or general malaise is it indicated.
· Pneumonia (lung infection). No added bonus over penicillin (unless you have COPD or asthma, see below), use that instead.
· Sinusitis.As in otitis media most don't need treatment with antibiotics, and if you do need antibiotics, use penicillin
· Skin or Soft Tissue Infection (cellulitis, boils). No point, if streptococcal penicillin is just as good, if stafylococcal you need Amoxicillin with clavulanic acid instead (because of UKs high rate of MRSA).
· Actinomycosis (causes abscesses in humans and livestock) Penicillin preferred or if no response to that; Amoxicillin with clavulanic acid.
· Bronchitis. Should not be treated with antibiotics (though GPs wrongly does it a lot),(unless you have COPD or asthma, see below).
· Tonsillitis/Pharyngitis (Strep throat). Should only be treated if you got streptococcus... and how do you know, if you are not being tested at your GP? Generally; If only none to moderate fever and throat irritability try without, and if no improvement in 3 days go for penicillin instead.

The above list is, though not simple, a grossly simplified list. F.x. UTI's vary if you're a woman in a childbearing age, a toddler in diapers or a male, they vary in degrees from simple cystitis over pyelonephritis to septicaemia and cannot be treated as one :!:

Concerning COPD/asthma and airway infections. The most common airway infections in people with chronic lung disease (as Asthma and COPD), will be different to "normal" people. Mostly due to multiple earlier antibiotic courses, but also because of the changed environment in the lungs. Because of that Amoxicillin with clavulanic acid is generally 1st choice with chronic lung disease and lower airway infections.

[/geek mode]

So to sum up; if TEOTWAWKI scenario go ahead, though you might end up with diarrhea more often than with penicillin. But in day to day life because of the inconvenience (and wait, and possible "no", and monetary issues (dont know if you have to pay if you got to your GP in britain :oops: , in DK you dont (yet) ); please don't. Consult your GP instead. Oh and in bio-terror scenario; bend over and kiss you sweet behind goodbye. What ever it is, is going to be pan-resistant i.e. your body will have to fight it off for itself. :?
There is no perfect antibiotic, no "treat all pill", and for my TEOTWAWKI stockpile i would go for Amoxicillin with clavulanic acid instead, or even better Moxifloxacin, but most of all, at buttload of penicillin :lol:
ForgeCorvus
Posts: 3057
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:32 pm

Re: fish antibiotics for humans

Post by ForgeCorvus »

Werecat wrote: So to sum up; if TEOTWAWKI scenario go ahead, though you might end up with diarrhea more often than with penicillin. But in day to day life because of the inconvenience (and wait, and possible "no", and monetary issues (dont know if you have to pay if you got to your GP in britain :oops: , in DK you dont (yet) ); please don't. Consult your GP instead.
FYI, the National Health system here is free at point of use (except we have to pay a fixed fee for Prescriptions)
Oh and in bio-terror scenario; bend over and kiss you sweet behind goodbye. What ever it is, is going to be pan-resistant i.e. your body will have to fight it off for itself. :?
Not a lot of point in weaponising a lurgy if its easy and cheap to treat
There is no perfect antibiotic, no "treat all pill", and for my TEOTWAWKI stockpile i would go for Amoxicillin with clavulanic acid instead, or even better Moxifloxacin, but most of all, at buttload of penicillin :lol:
Penicillin, the original and (quite often) the best.

Am I right in saying that if you're allergic to Penicillin you're allergic to any of the 'cillin/'cin antibiotics?
What would be a good option in this case ??
jennyjj01 wrote:"I'm not in the least bit worried because I'm prepared: Are you?"
Londonpreppy wrote: At its core all prepping is, is making sure you're not down to your last sheet of loo roll when you really need a poo.
"All Things Strive" Gd Tak 'Gar
User avatar
mallie99
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:14 pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: fish antibiotics for humans

Post by mallie99 »

ForgeCorvus wrote:Penicillin, the original and (quite often) the best.

Am I right in saying that if you're allergic to Penicillin you're allergic to any of the 'cillin/'cin antibiotics?
What would be a good option in this case ??
Hmm, penicillin. The first mass-produced antibiotic, typical that I'm one of those allergic to it. Not 100% sure about the fact of being allergic to all the family, but it's often the case since the name change is typically just marketing and sometimes a slight shift in production methods and raw ingredients. I won't have anything in the Penicillin family (such as amoxycillin) as I wont really benefit from the results after my post-mortem autopsy. But that's just me and my negative thinking ;)

There are many antibiotics, all developed and marketed to deal with slightly different infection paths and bacteria. It's amazing that there are now SO MANY considering penicillin was only recently mass produced (2nd world war? or was it after? Must google that fact...). That being said, I would suspect that if you have no access to doctors and the zombies are breaking the doors down you'll be looking at a multiple choice of a) Death or b) Maybe-Death, the latter option could be "Use what you can find and quietly pray". I feel this almost doesn't need saying, but I would really expect everyone here to understand this situation to be the ONLY situation in which you'd mess about with pharmacology without any experience.

One thing I'd definitely be doing after the end of the world is hitting a Boots and finding the Pharma Manuals.
Entirely certain that nothing is certain

Location: Areas 8 & 10
Leo1
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:10 pm

Re: fish antibiotics for humans

Post by Leo1 »

mallie99 wrote:One thing I'd definitely be doing after the end of the world is hitting a Boots and finding the Pharma Manuals.
If you have the money you can buy at
http://www.bnf.org/bnf/index.htm
Your local libraries should have a copy availed to view, or if your on good terms with your local surgery they may let you have a old copy.

Leo
User avatar
mallie99
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:14 pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: fish antibiotics for humans

Post by mallie99 »

Leo1 wrote:
mallie99 wrote:One thing I'd definitely be doing after the end of the world is hitting a Boots and finding the Pharma Manuals.
If you have the money you can buy at
http://www.bnf.org/bnf/index.htm
Your local libraries should have a copy availed to view, or if your on good terms with your local surgery they may let you have a old copy.

Leo
Good call, thanks for the tip!
Entirely certain that nothing is certain

Location: Areas 8 & 10
ibcsweb
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:22 pm

Re: fish antibiotics for humans

Post by ibcsweb »

unsure wrote:ive never spoken to any one personally who has taken them , but if you look an youtube for the patriotnurse
she has some good info , theres all so a few docs on there that say they are safe .
how ever doxy is toxic once it pass`s it use by date .

the U S army had test`s done on the use by date of drugs and the effectiveness after the dates on the packets , have a look at that one as well .



EDIT , sorry its not doxy, its tetra that was toxic , but the formula was changed .

http://www.youtube.com/user/drbonespodcast


have a mooch here

Patriot Nurse on youtube talks about the use of fish ab. implies that she would use.
gazza171

Re: fish antibiotics for humans

Post by gazza171 »

I see amazon has stopped selling the fish antibiotics...well most of them at least....apart from Maracyn...which i think is a bit dodgy and not really "fit for purpose" ...but on a positive note

has anyone else just gone to the travel clinic...eg, the type found in the basement of Nomad travel agent/hiking cloths shop in Manchester.....they normally have a nurse and she sells you straight malaria pills...well
one of the most common malaria pill is doxy, if you tell her you are going to Africa for 6 month, its totally normal to get 200 pills of doxy, without her even batting a eye lid, i go to Africa prity often, i promise im not stockpiling them,
but its always good to have a few extra of the pills lying around, just in case you get a dose of the clap....and its all total legit, you even have your name percribed on the box...no need to worry about having un authorized medicine