Advice on my options ( in a serious social collapse)

[SoCal92057]

In a SHTF scenario, my remote living situation allows me to stay where I am. Others may find it necessary to go to a bug out location (BOL). I think the greatest difficulty with bugging out (BO) is getting to the BOL as there may be a long line of refugees congesting the primary and secondary roads. Soon some vehicles will run out of fuel, breakdown or have a collision with another vehicle which will further slow or stop the movement of those behind them. When an unprepared refugee vehicle without water or food spots a prepared prepper stopped and stuck in his vehicle, drinking water or eating an energy bar, that is when some trouble will begin. If you get to the BOL, the difficulty is the availability of supplies and shelter, especially in the winter. Remember, to those who live remotely or preppers who have bugged out and arrived at their BOL before you, your appearance will be unwelcome. Any comments on what the problems or solutions will be?

[SoCal92057]

you could armour up the van inside and live in that or ditch the caravan and get another transit as a weekend get away camper .

This would be my choice if i could, Turn the transit in to a travelling home.. A bed with storage underneath, cupboards and sink area..
At home we have everything available for everyday use, but also its all packed in plastic storage boxes ready to go if we need to move.. We already live further out of the city, but its still close enough that if SHTF we could have marauders looking to see what they could find.. So we are looking to convert a small area of loft space thats hidden via the eaves of the house in to a hide out area that we can shift the supplies up to and get in within 30mins, muzzle the dogs and hope for the best!..lol

What if hoping for the best is not good enough? What then? How do you defend your family from those who would murder them?

[lonewolf]

In a SHTF scenario, my remote living situation allows me to stay where I am. Others may find it necessary to go to a bug out location (BOL). I think the greatest difficulty with bugging out (BO) is getting to the BOL as there may be a long line of refugees congesting the primary and secondary roads. Soon some vehicles will run out of fuel, breakdown or have a collision with another vehicle which will further slow or stop the movement of those behind them. When an unprepared refugee vehicle without water or food spots a prepared prepper stopped and stuck in his vehicle, drinking water or eating an energy bar, that is when some trouble will begin.

that's why, unlike the sheeple, preppers do not bug out on motorways(known as "killing zones" by the military for obvious reasons) and major A roads, we use the back country, unclassified roads, which of course we all get to know well, before any SHTF event starts, don't we??

[Briggs 2.0]

you could armour up the van inside and live in that or ditch the caravan and get another transit as a weekend get away camper .

This would be my choice if i could, Turn the transit in to a travelling home.. A bed with storage underneath, cupboards and sink area..
At home we have everything available for everyday use, but also its all packed in plastic storage boxes ready to go if we need to move.. We already live further out of the city, but its still close enough that if SHTF we could have marauders looking to see what they could find.. So we are looking to convert a small area of loft space thats hidden via the eaves of the house in to a hide out area that we can shift the supplies up to and get in within 30mins, muzzle the dogs and hope for the best!..lol

What if hoping for the best is not good enough? What then? How do you defend your family from those who would murder them?

I read your intro, so welcome to the forum. I am quite interested in what your responses are going to be when it becomes apparent that due to strict firearm regulations most of the UK population have no means to defend themselves and/or their family against an armed attacker. UK knife laws prevent a law-abiding person from carrying a fixed blade or locking blade knife over 3" long on their person, unless they have a legitimate work-related reason to do so. In fact, over here, it could be argued that it's just the bad guys that have the guns and knives. Of course, there are some UK residents who do have access to firearms but to use one in self-defence is prohibited and unless one had a rock-solid legally water-tight reason for shooting an intruder or attacker, one will face a long jail sentence. The guideline is a 'reasonable and measured response' when applying self-defence but this can often be a very grey area. We had a high profile case recently where a property owner, whose business had been repeatedly burgled, caught two men stealing fuel. He apprehended them using a wooden post as a weapon and the two thieves took quite beating, one had a broken leg and the other was heavily beaten. My opinion is the thieves got exactly what they deserved, however the UK legal system prosecuted the property owner for assault plus the thieves set upon a compensation claim for their injuries. It's arse-about-face twisted in my opinion but that's the law and we have to abide by it. So, Optimystics plan to hide out in the loft is not as strange as it might first appear.

I understand that some US states are attempting to revise your firearm laws which will bring them more into line with the UK. No more shopping trips to Walmart to pick up an AR15, perhaps?

[lonewolf]

that's may be the case Briggs2, but post SHTF when its WROL all bets are off, and any body breaking in will get what they deserve? one less burglar/raider to worry about!

[SoCal92057]

Hello Briggs 2.0. I have some knowledge of the UK laws on firearms. I also have family from the UK who visit here every few years. I take them shooting and to a firearms store. They are amazed. A disarmed population is a necessary prelude to enacting social policies that the political elite think is best for all the rest. No rebellion without firearms you know. Not even a concern to the political class as they have the police. Remember, government believes the number one duty of a government is to itself. To continue to exist. It is not to the people. Take the firearms away and turn the people into sheeple and then the "I know what is best for you" political class can do to you whatever they wish. I am a proponent for the maximum individual liberty that is possible. I also believe in individual accountability for ones actions, and that my government not think of me as untrustworthy and incapable of making those decisions that are best for myself. When a government makes the ownership of firearms illegal or so difficult as to be effectively illegal, then they no longer trust the people. Firearms ownership is alive and well in the US. We are winning most of the political battles and where we lose those we win in court due to our Constitution that guarantees the individual right to own a firearm. Resistance to government authority is an ingrained American attribute. The government here dare not push too far or there will be a push back. This happened in the 1990's at Waco, Texas and Ruby Ridge, Idaho and has recently happened again in Nevada. Thankfully, there was no lose of life in Nevada, but both federal agents and civilians were killed at the other battles. Life here in the US is dynamic and sometimes violent but not so much as is often portrayed in the news. Remember, we have over 300 million people and a country that spans about 3,000 miles from sea to sea. We also have over 200 million firearms in the hands of civilians. The US cannot be occupied by another country as there would be millions of patriots ready to fight back. By the way, AR15's are for sale at WalMart for about $850 to $1,100 depending upon the model. The problem is how to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. Neither class of person is likely to care about the law. In the last 10 years, firearms ownership in the US has skyrocketed, but the violet crime rate has fallen. Could it be that the criminals are concerned about what they may come up against? I think so, especially since all states now allow some form of carry concealed. I am attaching a video that is from a very popular TV series of a few years ago. Although only a fictional TV show, I think it expresses the attitude of many Americans about the right to self defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KvO-8IvoCI

[SoCal92057]

In a SHTF scenario, my remote living situation allows me to stay where I am. Others may find it necessary to go to a bug out location (BOL). I think the greatest difficulty with bugging out (BO) is getting to the BOL as there may be a long line of refugees congesting the primary and secondary roads. Soon some vehicles will run out of fuel, breakdown or have a collision with another vehicle which will further slow or stop the movement of those behind them. When an unprepared refugee vehicle without water or food spots a prepared prepper stopped and stuck in his vehicle, drinking water or eating an energy bar, that is when some trouble will begin.

that's why, unlike the sheeple, preppers do not bug out on motorways(known as "killing zones" by the military for obvious reasons) and major A roads, we use the back country, unclassified roads, which of course we all get to know well, before any SHTF event starts, don't we??

Once the SHTF and the refugees flee the population centers, there will not be any back country roads anymore clear than anywhere else. I am certain that a roof over your head is usually better than living in a BO hole in the ground. The question is how to protect/defend that roof over your head from the looters and unprepared. Given the UK laws, I think there may be strength in numbers within a community or road. Ten people waving 10 ax handles will be more of a deterrent than one.

[ForgeCorvus]

that's may be the case Briggs2, but post SHTF when its WROL all bets are off, and any body breaking in will get what they deserve? one less burglar/raider to worry about!

As may be, however because currently we have ROL its advisable that any preps we admit to on a public (but privately owned) forum conform to those laws.

To any US visitors, I'd love to have UK gun laws as liberal as California's ..... Read into that what you may

[Briggs 2.0]

that's may be the case Briggs2, but post SHTF when its WROL all bets are off, and any body breaking in will get what they deserve? one less burglar/raider to worry about!

As may be, however because currently we have ROL its advisable that any preps we admit to on a public (but privately owned) forum conform to those laws.

To any US visitors, I'd love to have UK gun laws as liberal as California's ..... Read into that what you may

I hope Mr SoCal replies because I'm interested in how the ordinary US gun owner sees their upcoming new gun laws. The interweb is chocked full of people exercising their 2nd Amendment right by carrying long weapons in clear view but I'd like a more reserved, average Joe's opinion.

EDIT: he has replied - a few posts up. Thank you.

[Briggs 2.0]

Hello Briggs 2.0. I have some knowledge of the UK laws on firearms. I also have family from the UK who visit here every few years. I take them shooting and to a firearms store. They are amazed. A disarmed population is a necessary prelude to enacting social policies that the political elite think is best for all the rest. No rebellion without firearms you know. Not even a concern to the political class as they have the police. Remember, government believes the number one duty of a government is to itself. To continue to exist. It is not to the people. Take the firearms away and turn the people into sheeple and then the "I know what is best for you" political class can do to you whatever they wish. I am a proponent for the maximum individual liberty that is possible. I also believe in individual accountability for ones actions, and that my government not think of me as untrustworthy and incapable of making those decisions that are best for myself. When a government makes the ownership of firearms illegal or so difficult as to be effectively illegal, then they no longer trust the people. Firearms ownership is alive and well in the US. We are winning most of the political battles and where we lose those we win in court due to our Constitution that guarantees the individual right to own a firearm. Resistance to government authority is an ingrained American attribute. The government here dare not push too far or there will be a push back. This happened in the 1990's at Waco, Texas and Ruby Ridge, Idaho and has recently happened again in Nevada. Thankfully, there was no lose of life in Nevada, but both federal agents and civilians were killed at the other battles. Life here in the US is dynamic and sometimes violent but not so much as is often portrayed in the news. Remember, we have over 300 million people and a country that spans about 3,000 miles from sea to sea. We also have over 200 million firearms in the hands of civilians. The US cannot be occupied by another country as there would be millions of patriots ready to fight back. By the way, AR15's are for sale at WalMart for about $850 to $1,100 depending upon the model. The problem is how to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. Neither class of person is likely to care about the law. In the last 10 years, firearms ownership in the US has skyrocketed, but the violet crime rate has fallen. Could it be that the criminals are concerned about what they may come up against? I think so, especially since all states now allow some form of carry concealed. I am attaching a video that is from a very popular TV series of a few years ago. Although only a fictional TV show, I think it expresses the attitude of many Americans about the right to self defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KvO-8IvoCI

Thank you for your reply and the insight into the gun laws in the US. As a UK resident, on an open forum, it's not all that wise for me to comment in too great a detail about gun ownership in the UK. Here, we put our faith in a front-line police force that is unarmed, which then relies upon a rapid, armed police response team for gun-related crime. I often wonder in amazement how our unarmed officers deal with gun-related incidents. In my opinion, I'd rather see a police officer with a sidearm than a criminal with one, so on the whole, I'm all for arming our police force. As for allowing gun-ownership to UK citizens, it would need thorough vetting and management and I can't foresee the authorities ever loosening the current gun law here.