Mini ice age coming?

[Jan Smits]

SOMETHING has to be the source of our industrial power, and saying "well, we should not use fossil fuels just in case global warming is real" wont cut it

And no, that's not what I said. We should lay off on fossil fuels just in case the huge amount of data and majority of scientists are right. As for the source of industrial power, I refer you to Grenfell's reply, which seems to have been misunderstood also.

[tc556guy]

and this is.....wrong I take it, ?
I guess YOUR way is the only correct way and anyone who see's things differently leave themselves open to ridicule. That's likely to win people over to your side.

The hippies I was talking about? Yeah, they're usually wrong on just about every topic I hear them blabbering about
I don't care about winning people over to my side; what I object to are the lefties who try to silence any opposing views because "the science is settled" ( as in the case of "climate change" or "common sense gun laws" ( on another issue dear to my heart.
It is the lefties who aren't willing to broker any dissent. They're the ones who are in favor of big government being the solution, the individual deferring to the group, etc...in order words, believes that run contrary to anyone I know in the prep world.
maybe it's different over there.
Go ahead and disagree if you like. It is, at least for now, a free country (here) for you to do so.

[Deeps]

and this is.....wrong I take it, ?
I guess YOUR way is the only correct way and anyone who see's things differently leave themselves open to ridicule. That's likely to win people over to your side.

The hippies I was talking about? Yeah, they're usually wrong on just about every topic I hear them blabbering about
I don't care about winning people over to my side; what I object to are the lefties who try to silence any opposing views because "the science is settled" ( as in the case of "climate change" or "common sense gun laws" ( on another issue dear to my heart.
It is the lefties who aren't willing to broker any dissent. They're the ones who are in favor of big government being the solution, the individual deferring to the group, etc...in order words, believes that run contrary to anyone I know in the prep world.
maybe it's different over there.
Go ahead and disagree if you like. It is, at least for now, a free country (here) for you to do so.

Ummm, this is all a bit peas in a pod isn't it ? You seem to be completely disregarding their view (and being rude about them) but seem a bit unwilling to accept any dissent on their part. "I'm right, you're wrong" seems to be the message here and as its down to opinions (and votes) its maybe in your interest to 'win' them over to your side. Turn them into right (Right) thinking model citizens and not lefty hippy types.

[Brambles]

and this is.....wrong I take it, ?
I guess YOUR way is the only correct way and anyone who see's things differently leave themselves open to ridicule. That's likely to win people over to your side.

The hippies I was talking about? Yeah, they're usually wrong on just about every topic I hear them blabbering about
I don't care about winning people over to my side; what I object to are the lefties who try to silence any opposing views because "the science is settled" ( as in the case of "climate change" or "common sense gun laws" ( on another issue dear to my heart.
It is the lefties who aren't willing to broker any dissent. They're the ones who are in favor of big government being the solution, the individual deferring to the group, etc...in order words, believes that run contrary to anyone I know in the prep world.
maybe it's different over there.
Go ahead and disagree if you like. It is, at least for now, a free country (here) for you to do so.

Ummm, this is all a bit peas in a pod isn't it ? You seem to be completely disregarding their view (and being rude about them) but seem a bit unwilling to accept any dissent on their part. "I'm right, you're wrong" seems to be the message here and as its down to opinions (and votes) its maybe in your interest to 'win' them over to your side. Turn them into right (Right) thinking model citizens and not lefty hippy types.

I wouldn't get too huffy about him/her, Deeps. He/she is one of our opinionated colonial types. I've just looked back at their posting history and it seems they pop up from time to time, stir the pot a bit then go off again, presumably to troll somewhere else. I have their number now and will be watching.
Some people forget we are all guests here and seem to lose sight of their manners.

[MissAnpassad]

The hippies I was talking about? Yeah, they're usually wrong on just about every topic I hear them blabbering about

So, as I am what you probably would refer to as an hippie, i'm always wrong? All "hippies" are the same I take it? It's not like we are different people, where some of us smoke pot and others have university degrees (like the rest of the population)?

I don't care about winning people over to my side; what I object to are the lefties who try to silence any opposing views because "the science is settled" ( as in the case of "climate change" or "common sense gun laws" ( on another issue dear to my heart.

Really, we are? That's strange, I seem to have been "listening" all through the thread where you don't listen to the opposite side.

It is the lefties who aren't willing to broker any dissent. They're the ones who are in favor of big government being the solution, the individual deferring to the group, etc...in order words, believes that run contrary to anyone I know in the prep world.
maybe it's different over there.
Go ahead and disagree if you like. It is, at least for now, a free country (here) for you to do so."

Have you ever been to a "left" country? Are you aware of that the freedom of speach is a hell of a lot stronger in my country than in for example the US?

And by the way, this lefty environmental hippie are for windmills.

[tc556guy]

Ummm, this is all a bit peas in a pod isn't it ? You seem to be completely disregarding their view (and being rude about them) but seem a bit unwilling to accept any dissent on their part. "I'm right, you're wrong" seems to be the message here and as its down to opinions (and votes) its maybe in your interest to 'win' them over to your side. Turn them into right (Right) thinking model citizens and not lefty hippy types.

It's too late to change such people. They run to communities like mine where they achieve critical mass of like-minded lefties because their views get them laughed out of wherever it is they came from. My town entered the 1960s and never left it because of such people.
If you had to deal with such people on a regular basis you'd lose patience with them too, I am guessing. Sooner or later.....

[tc556guy]

The hippies I was talking about? Yeah, they're usually wrong on just about every topic I hear them blabbering about

So, as I am what you probably would refer to as an hippie, i'm always wrong? All "hippies" are the same I take it? It's not like we are different people, where some of us smoke pot and others have university degrees (like the rest of the population)?

I don't care about winning people over to my side; what I object to are the lefties who try to silence any opposing views because "the science is settled" ( as in the case of "climate change" or "common sense gun laws" ( on another issue dear to my heart.

Really, we are? That's strange, I seem to have been "listening" all through the thread where you don't listen to the opposite side.

It is the lefties who aren't willing to broker any dissent. They're the ones who are in favor of big government being the solution, the individual deferring to the group, etc...in order words, believes that run contrary to anyone I know in the prep world.
maybe it's different over there.
Go ahead and disagree if you like. It is, at least for now, a free country (here) for you to do so."

Have you ever been to a "left" country? Are you aware of that the freedom of speach is a hell of a lot stronger in my country than in for example the US?

And by the way, this lefty environmental hippie are for windmills.

Most hippies are for windmills..til someone wants to build them in their back yard.
Then they become NIMBYs.
I've heard the opposing view for years in my town.
I don't see any need to give it further credence.
The people who are all about "local local local" have stood up in town meetings and said that all we need to thrive here economically is education, agriculture and tourism. It's pure unrealistic fantasy.
Well, everything we use in daily life has to be made somewhere. if made locally, it requires far more energy than solar and wind can provide.
If made elsewhere, it needs to be transported, sold and then yes, ultimately disposed of at the end of its useful lifespan.
Even back in the early frontier days of my nation, while stuff was made locally, a lot of stuff was brought in and sold because it couldn't be produced locally.
This idea that you can have a low-impact industrial nation that has zero impact on the environment, zero impact on carbon production etc is a fantasy.
I've been through most of Europe at one point or another. Mexico, Canada, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Afghanistan.
As for freedom of speech...eh, I am not so sure that you guys have as much of it as we do.
Obviously you know your current local situation better, but it's my understanding that you have no equivalent to our First Amendment.
I've also read about various laws that your gov't has passed over the years that limit speech in ways that probably wouldn't happen here.
We have our own demons such as the Patriot Act that are not greatly enjoyed or I think even understood in any detail by the general population.
We owe a great amount to your nation in terms of the formation of ours, but as it relates to many issues, I think that your nation is about 50 years ahead of ours in the trend towards a downward spiral that neither nation will be able to pull out of if it's allowed to continue.
I hope that I am wrong, but it is also a major factor in why I prep.

[MissAnpassad]

Most hippies are for windmills..til someone wants to build them in their back yard.
Then they become NIMBYs.
I've heard the opposing view for years in my town.
I don't see any need to give it further credence.
The people who are all about "local local local" have stood up in town meetings and said that all we need to thrive here economically is education, agriculture and tourism. It's pure unrealistic fantasy.
Well, everything we use in daily life has to be made somewhere. if made locally, it requires far more energy than solar and wind can provide.
If made elsewhere, it needs to be transported, sold and then yes, ultimately disposed of at the end of its useful lifespan.
Even back in the early frontier days of my nation, while stuff was made locally, a lot of stuff was brought in and sold because it couldn't be produced locally.
This idea that you can have a low-impact industrial nation that has zero impact on the environment, zero impact on carbon production etc is a fantasy.
I've been through most of Europe at one point or another. Mexico, Canada, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Afghanistan.
As for freedom of speech...eh, I am not so sure that you guys have as much of it as we do.
Obviously you know your current local situation better, but it's my understanding that you have no equivalent to our First Amendment.
I've also read about various laws that your gov't has passed over the years that limit speech in ways that probably wouldn't happen here.
We have our own demons such as the Patriot Act that are not greatly enjoyed or I think even understood in any detail by the general population.
We owe a great amount to your nation in terms of the formation of ours, but as it relates to many issues, I think that your nation is about 50 years ahead of ours in the trend towards a downward spiral that neither nation will be able to pull out of if it's allowed to continue.
I hope that I am wrong, but it is also a major factor in why I prep.

Okay, lets go through the first amendment and compare it to Sweden.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

In Sweden you are allowed to say what you want, you can even say "I'm never going to eat beef again" on national tv. But there are a few exeptions. You are not allowed to run a add on TV stating that abortion is murder, but you are allowed to write/say it. You are not allowed to call africans monkeys in a magazine, but you are allowed to say it or write it on a forum. It's a law we call "hets mot folkgrupp".

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Thank god we dont have the right to carry arms without propper education about it. The number of children who accidentaly shoots themself are minimal in Sweden. If you buy a gun here, you are legally abliged to own a guncabinet.

"No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law."

Well sweetie, that Swedish law is medieval. The king who wrote it is called Ladulås (Locked barns).

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Theexact same as here. But we are friendly and try and help the police.

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

We don't even have the death penalty. (US the land of the free? My ass).

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

We don't have jurys, we have "nämdemän", people with knowledge of the law and science. So OJ would have gone to prison here.

"In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law."

The best thing about the US is all the lawsuits? We solve small disagreements in good faith.

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. "

If they suspect you would bail, you dont get out at all, the right to be free until the trial is not regulated by how much money you have.

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

Same.

And I don't mind windmills even in my backyard.

"It's pure unrealistic fantasy."

In your closminded country, yes, but in countries with a little more behind the forehead, no.

[tc556guy]

In Sweden you are allowed to say what you want, you can even say "I'm never going to eat beef again" on national tv. But there are a few exeptions. You are not allowed to run a add on TV stating that abortion is murder, but you are allowed to write/say it. You are not allowed to call africans monkeys in a magazine, but you are allowed to say it or write it on a forum. It's a law we call "hets mot folkgrupp".

Ah, so you can't say something out of political correctness

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Thank god we dont have the right to carry arms without propper education about it. The number of children who accidentaly shoots themself are minimal in Sweden. If you buy a gun here, you are legally abliged to own a guncabinet.

Good news for you then. More young US children die from swimming pools in the US than accidental gun shootings, despite what the liberal anti-gun element claims. Medical mal-practice in the US alone has a far higher death toll than mis-use of firearms

"No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law."

Well sweetie, that Swedish law is medieval. The king who wrote it is called Ladulås (Locked barns).

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Theexact same as here. But we are friendly and try and help the police.

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

We don't even have the death penalty. (US the land of the free? My ass).

We don't use the death penalty enough, in my opinion.

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

We don't have jurys, we have "nämdemän", people with knowledge of the law and science. So OJ would have gone to prison here.

Doesn't sound like a jury of my peers. professional jurors? Rally? That's supposed to be better?

"In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law."

The best thing about the US is all the lawsuits? We solve small disagreements in good faith.

yes, the US is a litigious society. That's both good and bad. I chalk up the bad to us having too many freeloaders who read about every massive civil suit award and go looking for their own personal payday

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. "

If they suspect you would bail, you dont get out at all, the right to be free until the trial is not regulated by how much money you have.

In the US bail is not supposed to be punitive. At the same time, we have too many alternative to incarceration programs. Criminals should be locked up, and the worst of them need to be put to death.

And I don't mind windmills even in my backyard.

That's good

"It's pure unrealistic fantasy."

In your closminded country, yes, but in countries with a little more behind the forehead, no.

We'll agree to disagree on that.
As I recall, you guys are a bit stricter about who you let in, although you've lately been letting more Muslims in who are upsetting your homogenous society apple cart.
We'll see how well you Europeans handle the Islamic hoard invading you over the long term.
I believe that none of the current European socialist workers paradises will find the invasion to their liking or national interests in the long haul.
Hope you enjoy your sharia law when it arrives on your shores.
it's coming, if you let it.

[MissAnpassad]

How I love that you dont even read anything.

"Ah, so you can't say something out of political correctness"

Read again and read it right this time, as you are allowed to say whatever you want (like "I will never ever eat american beef as your animalrights laws are non existant). I the US you could sue me.

"More young US children die from swimming pools in the US than accidental gun shootings, despite what the liberal anti-gun element claims. Medical mal-practice in the US alone has a far higher death toll than mis-use of firearms"

This is really scary, you think its okay with any children dying? We work against the number zero and we are not far from it.

"We don't use the death penalty enough, in my opinion."

Even more scarier that you belive that and that you are the "only free country". Please don't move to Europe, we like humans here.

"Doesn't sound like a jury of my peers. professional jurors? Rally? That's supposed to be better?
"
Obviously it is, as we have fewer recurring criminals. And in Sweden we are all pears.

"We'll agree to disagree on that.
As I recall, you guys are a bit stricter about who you let in, although you've lately been letting more Muslims in who are upsetting your homogenous society apple cart.
We'll see how well you Europeans handle the Islamic hoard invading you over the long term.
I believe that none of the current European socialist workers paradises will find the invasion to their liking or national interests in the long haul.
Hope you enjoy your sharia law when it arrives on your shores.
it's coming, if you let it."

Ahh, you been reading on rasist sites, thats not what is happening in sweden (they are just lying to you, dont you realize it?).

And no, i'm not worried, as I now what islam is from my own experience.