Advice Needed - Air Rifle

[Jamesey1981]

Deleted, was going too far off topic.

[Plymtom]

Jamesey: I'm tempted to write a long post about my feelings on the 24/12 Law and how aesthetically pleasing guns that comply with it are
However that would get us so far Off-Topic that we'd need a map and a couple of Sherpas to get back

While I understand the reasoning behind our northern neighbours licensing airguns, I still think its stupid and poorly thought out..... The kind of people that dick about with airguns are the type who don't bother about stuff like licenses, after all its the same mind-set to not bother with petty things like car insurance, tax, MOT, driving licenses, drink/drug driving etc and all of those have been enforceable for years.[/rant]

Bugout: No reason not to have something just because you want it....... After all, I've got an axe or ten

Could you explain it to me then ?

We had a tragic incident up here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -life.html) a whiley back but we have more people getting killed by other means by a country mile. It was a good old fashioned knee jerk and as you say, pretty pointless as it won't stop people getting their hands on an air gun if they want one, especially with our neighbours allowing them. There are other more lethal options like crossbows which are still legal and it wouldn't surprise me if yoofs ended up going down this route. I'm not particularly 'gunny' but this strikes me as a particularly ill thought out approach.

It is a stupid move, the cat's protection league are trying to force licensing in the rest of the UK too, and we aren't best pleased, the chances of catching anyone who shoots cats are quite slim, We have 9 so don't think I like guns more than cats Apathy in the shooting community is why we are ever under pressure and restricted, we must fight for our rights, the vast majority of us do not shoot cats or kids, personally nothing living get's shot at, it's all good fun, can't say clean I'm afraid

[BugOut66]

In the rest of the UK it might be worth joining the club to get that revolver without needing a licence, but in Scotland since you need a licence for an airgun you might just as well go for an actual firearm unless you're planning on using it in a suburban back garden.

I think I would struggle to get an actual firearms licence as there is no good reason for me to own a firearm. I just really like them, always have since I was a young boy.

[Jamesey1981]

In the rest of the UK it might be worth joining the club to get that revolver without needing a licence, but in Scotland since you need a licence for an airgun you might just as well go for an actual firearm unless you're planning on using it in a suburban back garden.

I think I would struggle to get an actual firearms licence as there is no good reason for me to own a firearm. I just really like them, always have since I was a young boy.

Target shooting is a good reason in law, you don't have to hunt, shooting paper is a sport in its own right so assuming you don't have medical issues or convictions that would stop you being licensed (which would also stop you from getting your airgun licence, I'm pretty sure the requirements will be the same) then you won't have any trouble if you join a home office approved club.
You don't even have to be any good at it, as long as you're safe and you listen to your range officer then they'll sign your application without a problem.
I have airguns and shotguns that I hunt with, (I shoot clays as well) and a rifle that I just punch paper with, all are legit reasons to have a shotgun, firearm or airgun, so don't be put off by the paperwork, if you go down the club route then it's pretty easy, it only starts getting complicated if you want it for hunting and don't want to join a club, then you need references from landowners and all sorts.

Whichever way you choose do it because that's the way you want to go, forget about the hassle of sorting out licences, that's temporary, and if you go down a path because it's easy but it's not the right path then you'll just have whatever you bought gathering dust and you'll have wasted your money, best advice I can give is go and try out a few disciplines and gun types at a few different clubs and see which you like best, then join up and get your paperwork sorted.

I'm giving this advice not just to try and be helpful, but for selfish reasons too, the more people that shoot regularly the safer my sport is, so I will always try and encourage people into shooting.

[Deeps]

It is a stupid move, the cat's protection league are trying to force licensing in the rest of the UK too, and we aren't best pleased, the chances of catching anyone who shoots cats are quite slim, We have 9 so don't think I like guns more than cats Apathy in the shooting community is why we are ever under pressure and restricted, we must fight for our rights, the vast majority of us do not shoot cats or kids, personally nothing living get's shot at, it's all good fun, can't say clean I'm afraid

We're cat lovers here too, we're down to one as the other one is 'missing in action' (18 months now ) and struggling to introduce another moggy into the mix as we've got a couple of daft dugs too. Anyone who abuses the defenceless, whether its people or animals is a problem and we'll all have our own views on that. I'm happy with where the UK is at generally, we can't stop bad things happening if someone is determined (as we've seen recently) but the alternative is to ban everything which is both impractical and counter productive. Sadly I think Jamesesy's view of getting enough people into an activity to make more noise is probably the way ahead, people who 'accidentally' kill people driving cars get much reduced sentences because we can all sympathise/empathise with them apparently.

[Plymtom]

In the rest of the UK it might be worth joining the club to get that revolver without needing a licence, but in Scotland since you need a licence for an airgun you might just as well go for an actual firearm unless you're planning on using it in a suburban back garden.

I think I would struggle to get an actual firearms licence as there is no good reason for me to own a firearm. I just really like them, always have since I was a young boy.

Do it! Join a club I implore you, so long as you have been within the law and are not in bad mental health as a club member they will not refuse you, anyone dodgy wouldn't get their application signed by the club officials, nor be made a full member for that matter, we have to promote shooting, especially target shooting, it's a safe family social activity, the only problem is to do it, you have to do it, you can't just join, get a load of firearms and sit on them, you have to use every one enough to justify continued ownership so get out there, tell your friends most wont regret it!

[Plymtom]

It is a stupid move, the cat's protection league are trying to force licensing in the rest of the UK too, and we aren't best pleased, the chances of catching anyone who shoots cats are quite slim, We have 9 so don't think I like guns more than cats Apathy in the shooting community is why we are ever under pressure and restricted, we must fight for our rights, the vast majority of us do not shoot cats or kids, personally nothing living get's shot at, it's all good fun, can't say clean I'm afraid

We're cat lovers here too, we're down to one as the other one is 'missing in action' (18 months now ) and struggling to introduce another moggy into the mix as we've got a couple of daft dugs too. Anyone who abuses the defenceless, whether its people or animals is a problem and we'll all have our own views on that. I'm happy with where the UK is at generally, we can't stop bad things happening if someone is determined (as we've seen recently) but the alternative is to ban everything which is both impractical and counter productive. Sadly I think Jamesesy's view of getting enough people into an activity to make more noise is probably the way ahead, people who 'accidentally' kill people driving cars get much reduced sentences because we can all sympathise/empathise with them apparently.

We don't let ours out I feel for you having a missing one, I feel for you mate, I get upset when they have spats and as you can see I agree with Jamesey the more the merrier Join clubs do it, have fun Air, Archery, Fullbore, you name it, these things are all tremendous fun, sure it means you have to go out and interact with other human beings, but what better way of doing so? All sport is meant to be a peace inducing thing where people from all backgrounds interact, and understand one another better, believe me shooting needs that, I say I have no blood lust, but I'll say this, even if we all went veggie we as a society would still have to cull animals, pests and game, to protect our crops, they aren't friends when they are decimating your food only sensible interaction with country folk gives the perspective we all need.

[Jamesey1981]

Ok, I deleted my last long ranty post as I was going a bit off topic but since the discussion has continued anyway here's my thoughts on the airgun licensing in Scotland and cats protection.

One of the big problems we have in this country is that shooters don't stick together like they do in the US.
When the Scottish government brought in their airgun licensing plans about 1100 people responded to the consultation on it, respondents were overwhelmingly against it, but out of around a million licensed shooters and who knows how many air gunners (there's around 8 million air guns, but no way of knowing how many people own them all) spread over the UK that's pretty pathetic, shooting magazines even had a cut out response coupon with tick boxes to show your opposition or opinion, all you had to do was put it in an envelope and post it.
When the UK government banned handguns, only the handgun shooters opposed it in any real numbers, and recently the EU have been trying to ban scary black rifles, and have succeeded in getting some new daft and restrictive laws through, few opposed it from the UK and a certain famous shooter (his initials are M.Y.) was all for it since it didn't affect the shooting he does with his side by side, and in his words, "No one needs an AR15." I would think civilian service rifle competitors would disagree there, and does anyone really need any sporting equipment?
I don't need golf clubs, I would still be alive without them, but its legal to play golf and I would like it to stay that way, I'm just as likely to injure someone with a golf ball as I am with one of my firearms since I shoot safely, (probably more likely actually, before I had my accident I was a pretty good golfer, but since I damaged my back I still have the power, but none of the accuracy!)
The only reason that it didn't all get through was because foreign shooters banded together to try and get their voices heard.

We really need to get rid of this "I'm alright Jack" mentality that shooters in the UK have or before long our sport will be illegal, our Olympic shooting team already have to train in another country.



A poem by Martin Niemöller springs to mind:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.



As for Cats Protection's airgun licensing push, I'll quote some figures that I posted on their Facebook page when they started their campaign.

This was worked out using the figures Cats Protection posted in their campaign and numbers estimates from Wikipedia.

There are around 8 million pet cats in the UK and an unknown number of feral cats.
There are around 6 million airguns
Cats protection state that in 2016 202 cats were shot with airguns, some may have been feral cats, but for the purposes of the calculations we'll assume they're all pet cats

So in 2016 there were at least 7,999,798 pet cats that were not shot with airguns, and at least 5,999,798 airguns that were not used to shoot cats, assuming that every incident used a different airgun, which in my view is unlikely since each offender probably shot more than one cat.

That is 0.002525% of pet cats, shot with 0.003367% of airguns, literally thousandths of a percent.

It's pretty obvious from the figures when you set them out in black and white that the problem isn't the airguns, it's the few idiots that use them to shoot cats.
There's also a seriously unpleasant chap called the UK cat killer/Croydon cat killer/M25 cat killer that has killed and cut up more cats than that single handed without using an airgun, along with foxes, rabbits and squirrels, people that do this kind of thing will do it with whatever tools they can get until they get punished for it. I think the money spent on these kind of campaigns would be better spent actually prosecuting the people that are doing it, their actions are already against the law, more laws won't change anything, there needs to be appropriate punishment for breaking the laws we have already.

You also can't assume that licensing will make any difference, the only thing we know about these people that are shooting cats with airguns is that they shoot cats with airguns and haven't been prosecuted for it, there is no way of knowing that they would be prevented from obtaining a licence for their airguns and carrying on shooting cats.

I have three cats by the way, I have volunteered at cats protection shelters and I've been helping SNARL (the people that are trying to catch the cat killer,) with leafleting and on one occasion collecting a possible victim, I love cats, but that doesn't mean I'm going to let the actions of a few wronguns be seen as representative of everyone that shoots, or stand by and have things taken away from me on the say so of a few loud anti shooting activists that lie and misrepresent the figures to the generally uninformed but well meaning public, even if I'm one of the (very few) shooters that can be bothered to stand up for ALL of us, not just those that participate in the same disciplines that I do.

[Plymtom]

Like button duly clicked @ Jamesey

[Deeps]

Great post Jamesey