The Anti-prepper prepper

[Arzosah]

A sister bag? I like it! But I'm curious too ... where does the name come from, FC?

[grenfell]

I don't have a ready packed rucksack sitting by the front door is that I really don't believe that such a sudden event is that likely.

I agree with you, jansman and plymtom on everything except this - mine isn't by the front door, its 2 steps from my bed, and always packed - house fires! Thats a sudden shtf event that can leave you with nothing! My rucksack has clothes to get me to a hotel, a flash drive with the contents of my computer, a packet of dried apricots for comfort food, and a notebook with addresses, finance details, and website logins. Gives me great peace of mind.

Yeah ok I have to give you that one it is a good idea in that scenario .

[matthopkins]

Now before you accidentally put your own foot in your own backside with a stupid reply. I want you to remember one very simple and undeniable fact. "They have already proven their fidelity. They have already put their lives on the line for societies protection." So please do not question that fidelity and willingness in the future.

................

Right , with my size10 firmly wedged up my A-hole past my ankle; I would like to comment on the above comment.

Taking nothing away from serving or ex service men and woman, i think the above comment is a little biased. Yes they have for the most part done a great job and again often have done stuff most people will never get to see or do. Through their training they have a skill set based on self relience and self belief and know how to work as a team. They are normally equipped with the best of kit and trained for many situations. This is all well and good in a situation where they are governed by their superiors. Just look at how many ex-squaddies cant cope once away from the comfort of the army and i dont meen the ones with PTSD.

Ive lived in a garrison town and worked the doors of clubs and pubs there and i have seen the other side of squaddies. Same as non enlisted people there are those who are nothing more than ego pumped idiots. Sorry if this offends you but im speaking from many years of experience and after all, they are nothing more than a human being in camo. Human nature is human nature and a squaddie will be subject to this just like anyone of us will come a shtf situation, with the pressure of the situation causing them to react in a certain way.

Same as squaddies, criminals are themselves human beings subject to the pressures of certain situations. And again like the squaddie the criminal for the most part are people who know about self relience and again have a self belief. They know how to work in groups and not being governed like you and I by the law, they are free to develop a skill set idealy suited to a shtf situation. Some i have met are very well educated and dont fit the profile of a spotty jobless computer game playing youth. These same criminals dont empithise with the needs and desires of others and are used to going out and getting it for themselves.
Dont forget that criminal and squaddie, project manager and unemployed brick layer are nothing more than a human being. As such all will be to a certain degree a product of their past environment. With this said should their environment change so will their behaviour, a change needed to adapt to their new environment they now find themselves in.

Personally i dont think anyone, myself included can say who will be better suited to coping in a shtf situation. Never having been in a war zone i cant comment on how people react to this. I can however say through experience, that those in the gym who throw the fastest and hardest punches at the bag or kick the sweetest high kicks; often dont go on to be the best fighters in the compertition ring. The loudest man with the mean and nasty tattoos all over his steriod pumped body isnt always one to fear in a fight. Once a good left cross lands on his beak and you show him you dont fear the image, he often crumbles.

Ok, the squaddie will more than likely be the one to offer help over the criminal i will give you that, but not allways.

[lonewolf]

it has always been said on prepper sites that, forget about your squaddies, Police and anyone else in uniform, most if not all of them will go home and take care of their own families WTSHTF, its only human nature.

[sfcfinchrs]

Now before you accidentally put your own foot in your own backside with a stupid reply. I want you to remember one very simple and undeniable fact. "They have already proven their fidelity. They have already put their lives on the line for societies protection." So please do not question that fidelity and willingness in the future.

................

Right , with my size10 firmly wedged up my A-hole past my ankle; I would like to comment on the above comment.

Taking nothing away from serving or ex service men and woman, i think the above comment is a little biased. Yes they have for the most part done a great job and again often have done stuff most people will never get to see or do. Through their training they have a skill set based on self relience and self belief and know how to work as a team. They are normally equipped with the best of kit and trained for many situations. This is all well and good in a situation where they are governed by their superiors. Just look at how many ex-squaddies cant cope once away from the comfort of the army and i dont meen the ones with PTSD.

Ive lived in a garrison town and worked the doors of clubs and pubs there and i have seen the other side of squaddies. Same as non enlisted people there are those who are nothing more than ego pumped idiots. Sorry if this offends you but im speaking from many years of experience and after all, they are nothing more than a human being in camo. Human nature is human nature and a squaddie will be subject to this just like anyone of us will come a shtf situation, with the pressure of the situation causing them to react in a certain way.

Same as squaddies, criminals are themselves human beings subject to the pressures of certain situations. And again like the squaddie the criminal for the most part are people who know about self relience and again have a self belief. They know how to work in groups and not being governed like you and I by the law, they are free to develop a skill set idealy suited to a shtf situation. Some i have met are very well educated and dont fit the profile of a spotty jobless computer game playing youth. These same criminals dont empithise with the needs and desires of others and are used to going out and getting it for themselves.
Dont forget that criminal and squaddie, project manager and unemployed brick layer are nothing more than a human being. As such all will be to a certain degree a product of their past environment. With this said should their environment change so will their behaviour, a change needed to adapt to their new environment they now find themselves in.

Personally i dont think anyone, myself included can say who will be better suited to coping in a shtf situation. Never having been in a war zone i cant comment on how people react to this. I can however say through experience, that those in the gym who throw the fastest and hardest punches at the bag or kick the sweetest high kicks; often dont go on to be the best fighters in the compertition ring. The loudest man with the mean and nasty tattoos all over his steriod pumped body isnt always one to fear in a fight. Once a good left cross lands on his beak and you show him you dont fear the image, he often crumbles.

Ok, the squaddie will more than likely be the one to offer help over the criminal i will give you that, but not allways.

LOL.... No offense taken.

Please notice that I never claimed that the we were nice people. You cannot do the job without it leaving a mark. Remember there is a price to pay for everything in life. I also did not mean to present a black or white type of view point. Life is so much more complicated than that.

Fair enough on the Biased comment. I'm an oldish and tired member of that club. While old and tired, I am still capable. You have seen a good amount of the bottom of the barrel of that sector of society. All I will say is that the few that did their time for the "RIGHT" reasons. Will always answer the call in times of need.

No offense intended in any of my comments.

Please remember. Once you have danced with the Devil, you are forever changed. A SHTF world is a great deal closer to the world we now understand and were made for. Yes we have trouble adapting to this world. The sociological divide between the civilian and military experiences of the world grow wider every day. Do remember that the majority are doing everything in their power to try and fit into this world back home. Usually without help or support. The rate of failure in this is very high. I know, I was failing miserably for a good while there. There is a part of me that yearns to be back at the point of the sword. I intimately understand that world and am comfortable in it. So yes I am going to try and highlight this sector of society as a resource in SHTF. Why? Because we volunteered for and then were made into beings that thrive in a chaotic hostile environment. Might be useful at some time.

So not arguing against your view. You see things as you see them and it is valid for you. Your arguments add shades of grey to subject and I hope I have blended in some more. No easy answers.

Lord.... this has turned out to be one heck of a good thread. Lots of good debate going on here.

[matthopkins]

Lord.... this has turned out to be one heck of a good thread. Lots of good debate going on here.

And thats what it should be, a debate with neither of the debate taking or offering offence
Please don't get me wrong, i admire those choosing a vocation in the armed forces and after all for some thats what it becomes, a vocation not just a job. Not for me but i offer admiration non the less.

I suppose i was trying to say that it all comes down to what makes you as a person, not something as broad as race, creed where you live or what lifestyle you come from. If your a selfish person in everyday life theres a good chance in a shtf situation you will remain selfish and vice-versa.

@lonewolf A few years ago a couple of police officers were stood at my neighbours front door arguing with him. It had been snowing and his neighbour came out to see what all the noise was about, she slipped over. Both stood and watched as he went over to help. I sat in my car to my shame as i didnt want the police to see me (dont know why )
Six months later when i needed their help most or rather my wife did, the local police were amazing in how far they went to help her and my two boys; so I stand by the idea its more about a persons make up than job.

This was why i replied to sfcfinchrs post as it was his wide sweeping statement ""They have already proven their fidelity. They have already put their lives on the line for societies protection." So please do not question that fidelity and willingness in the future." It implies they will always react in the same way. This as we know due to human nature may not be the case.

Enjoying this one, thumbs up guys

[PreppingPingu]

I'd just like to say that this is a brilliant thread. Thank you - there are some very intelligent and well thought out responses here. Good to see. Certainly makes you think about how others perceive things.

[sfcfinchrs]

@matthopkins

I do believe we have arrived at the point where we are both violently in a agreement....... LOL

I agree it comes down to the person ..........

In a muddled way I was trying to say that a single professional warrior motivated to protect those in the community is one heck of a combat multiplier.

I do believe that there is a higher percentage of professional warriors that will choose to do good things than other sectors of society, due to the fact that they have already set themselves a precedent. Yhey have already once in their lives volunteered for selfless service. Not to say there are not bad apple out there.

That point being made I can say that this does make a difference.

I take this stance based upon a unique time period in my life. You see I had the fortune and misfortune to serve in a location in this world where society had broken down completely. Never mind that we "America" had caused this breakdown by invading that country. Believe it or not, in "this" invasion there was a plan for stabilizing things again. Panama was worse that the wild west for a time there. You see I spent 4 years there taking care of business.

I saw how things unfolded. Most of my SHTF opinions were formed by watching how the society handled the crisis. Going it alone did not work. Communities banding together did. We served the role of hunters and the predators did not last long in the main. Yet the most effective were the hunters and sheep dogs in the communities. Wow did they take care of business..... Big time.

So points well taken.

Great thread.

[lonewolf]

@lonewolf A few years ago a couple of police officers were stood at my neighbours front door arguing with him. It had been snowing and his neighbour came out to see what all the noise was about, she slipped over. Both stood and watched as he went over to help. I sat in my car to my shame as i didnt want the police to see me (dont know why )
Six months later when i needed their help most or rather my wife did, the local police were amazing in how far they went to help her and my two boys; so I stand by the idea its more about a persons make up than job.

yes, maybe their are a few good coppers left NOW, but I was referring to post SHTF, unless we have martial law-which is a completely different subject- I don't think we will see police or army, and certainly not outside the big cities. in my area ALL the police stations are Part time and I haven't seen a policeman to speak to for 15 years since I left Plymouth. maybe further down the line after the dust has settled we may see ex coppers and ex squaddies offering their services in exchange for food but that will be months if not years post SHTF. to begin with it will be everyone for themselves and we should prep for this eventually not rely on third parties for protection.

[sfcfinchrs]

Ooops.......

I catch myself being lazy in my replies again.

Ok so the comparison of our current society and a third world society needs to be taken with a grain of salt. In the third world most of society still lives a subsistence and resilience lifestyle. So the shock of things falling apart will indeed be very acute. Thus things will get real bad real quick.

@Lonewolf - In no way am I saying your wrong. You indeed have a very valid point. You "must" be able to take care of yourself. In the third world, that is usually already the case. People rely less on the establishment, thus when the establishment fails they are impacted less. So prepping and self reliance is a positive step back to common sense. The stance on bugging out also has a very prominent place in the equation. Hunkering down and letting the storm pass by either by bugging in or bugging out to separate yourself from the chaos makes sense and is valid.

By all means, if you are able to bug-out successfully and remove yourself and your own from the chaos then all to the good. Most people will not possess the skills and means to do so. This means they may choose as the first option to Bug-in.

Our view based upon my experiences is that we are preparing for both options. This gives us better flexibility. So we do what is needed based upon how things go. yet each of use has to do what is right for us. Remember there are no right answers, just ones that work.

At no point do I expect anyone to take the course I have chosen. I was built to fulfill a set of specific roles in life and cannot turn away from that. Believe me, when I have tried to be something other than who I am I became a train wreck.

So my fellow preppers...... Do what you have to do. All is good.

Peace all