Military Kit v Civvie Kit

[BigJockC]

I am in a personal conflict with myself, Military Surplus/Issue - verus Civvie Kit (cheap or expensive) having spent 24 and a bit years in the Army I am well versed in the attributes of military kit, however, I am also aware of the epic failures caused by cost cutting MOD account holders chasing cheap suppliers. So my question is what do you all favour? Miltary or Civilian Kit?

I am starting to drift more towards civvie stuff

A'the Best

Jock

[JamieSmith]

Hmmm... Good question

Personally I don't think I would go for one or the other, I would make a combination of civvie and Military equipment that I believe is of the best quality or to an acceptable standard for the situation into which I prepare.

[Smudge]

Depends on what kit we're talking about, my bushcraft (bugout) kit is a mix and match, I like the Haix Boots, Basha, Sleeping Bag, Bergan, Water Bottle.......... Not keen on uniform (clothing) in any pattern etc.

[IfInDoubt]

In my experience most british military kit is just ok but it is fairly good value for money (and free for most who have to use it)

I think the main problem with almost all of it is that it is the 'army' having a go at civvy kit that has become popular with soldiers:
a few examples that spring to mind are the issue 'softie' jackets (a poor version of the snugpak), the Bergens (a poor version of the original Berghaus Cyclops/crusader) the black goretex cold weather boots (a poor version of lowas).

Where the kit is liked it tends to be commercial off the shelf urgent operational requirements taken into core; genuine camelbaks, meindl desert boots for Herrick, matterhorn/danner boots during the Balkans scuffle etc.

So if money was no object I would get civvy kit, however money is most definitely an issue for me so that's why a lot of my kit is G10 for men

the one thing that has yet to be bettered in my opinion though is the humble 58 pattern water bottle, indestructible and in use now for almost 60 years.

[Quercus-robur]

I think it is best to take the best from both worlds. I have found both have their strengths and weaknesses.

From personal experience, the military boots I have used have always been better quality than the civilian equivalents I have had. They have been more robust and lasted longer. The best boots I have ever wore were German Para Boots. I will admit I have worn civilian boots that were more comfortable than my German Para boots but they were let down with longevity. This is just my opinion but it seems to me that a big focus on civilian boots is comfortable and look with regards to being able to sell them. Whereas the main focus of military boots would be practicality and being able to be used in extreme environments day in day out for long periods of time.

Shelter wise, things like bashas and tarps I find the military versions better quality than the civilian counterparts. I also second what was said about the pattern 58 water bottle. Never used better.

The main thing that I have found to be better in the civilian world are pouches - belt or otherwise. Many military pouches available on army surplus websites are the ammo pouches that are standard in size. There is a lot more variety with sizes and designs when you look at dedicated bushcraft pouches. We all have different requirements for pouches whether it be fire kits, survival kits or first aid kits etc and having a wide variety means it is easy to find one to suit the purpose.

Qr

[rik_uk3]

Pick and mix what suits you and don't worry about it.

[pseudonym]

Pick and mix what suits you and don't worry about it.

+1 to that.

[Waffle]

in my personal experience id always go for military packs over civvie i went through several civvie bags traveling etc but my old army pack has never let me down also id suggest military for cooking kit but as most are saying a pix n mix is the best why limit yourself

[Winklebury]

Hello All,

It really depends. Its a great topic, and I have a lot of insight, and also a lot of questions.

The starting point for me is, Civvie vs Military, is a little bit of a frustrating split. There is very good and very bad on both sides.

As someone mentioned above, certain civvie kit has been bought wholesale for military in a quick timeframe. Meindl boots are absolutely outstanding, Cambelbacks are excellent kit, etc. The question is, what are you trying to achieve?

A lot of civilian kit is gear towards being lightweight, almost sporting focused, jackets you can climb the matahorn with, but are not necessarily designed to last. Imagine a world class climber, about to set a record for the Eiger. Goree-Tex, lightweight everything, he will be sponsored, paid for, and every gram saved means a faster ascent, and a better record, and better publicity in magazines. You don't think he (or she) will use that kit again? No, next season he will have the latest, and newest.

That is not to say that some gear isn't fantastic. Katadyn Pocket, B and higher (B/C, C, C/D and D) Meindl boots, Scarpa boots, Primus stoves, Hilleburg tents and tarps, etc. But keep in mind this grade of kit is as good if not better than military gear, but is very expensive. A five pound hexi stove is military kit, its shockingly bad technology, but is light, very cheap, and wont break down.

So really, it comes down to what you want. I am a civvie, but my brother is a para. He has recommended me kit, I have recommended him kit. Its great, but don't limit yourselves to one or other. And try not to think straight, military vs civvie.

Another great manufacturer of civvie kit is MacPac. They have fallen off the radar in recent years. Their rucksacks are tougher than any military ones you'll ever find. But they are heavy, and compared to ultra lightweight (and rather 'busy') Osprey type packs, are a tad old fashioned. I guess this is wwhy they are not as common any more. But if you can find any old Glissades or Cascades (the cascade hip belt had a radical new, and terrible new design in about 2008) then you wont find a better sack. Bomb-proof, long lasting, indeed, they have a reputation for lasting so long that owners deliberately trash them in order to justify buying new ones (crazy if you ask me!)

Also, check out:

1.) Super Feet (do not use Sorbathane!)
2.) Ice Breaker base layers
3.) ThermaRest
4.) Rab - allsorts of kit
5.) Asolo Boots - Powermatic 200 are fantastic and black, great for TA types
6.) Petzl - Head torches (already clocked by military)
7.) Deuter Rucksacks
8.) eVent - Alternative to Gore-Tex
9.) Mountain Equipment - great kit, not the best, but a good all rounder (kind of a rich man's budget go-to brand)
10.) Mountain Hardware - allsorts, check out their Lamina sleeping Bags
11.) Nalgene

Peace

[Bird1050]

Depends of your budget, As an ex squaddie some of the military kit is sorted but some is crap, The gortex combat boots are great value at £35 and the goetex wet proofs are good value but the the ordinary stuff shit