Investments

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grenfell
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Re: Investments

Post by grenfell »

Arzosah wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:12 pm I can only think of commodities (for instance, rare earths that will enable a few new pieces of technology to be manufactured - presumably it's very compact, you could store a high value of it for very little space. Or very old technology - a drop spindle or a spinning wheel along with a lesson on how to use them, a solid silver marrow spoon used to get roasted marrow out of long bones. Maps. How to books.
You make a very good point on the lessons of how to use things. No point storing old tech if nobody knows how it works. It would be good if we could also store the inclination to learn how as well. My background is woodworking and I'll admit to being a tad old school. For example I still carry and use an axe but many younger joiners and carpenters haven't even picked one up. for example ,fixing skirting boards used to be carried out with twisting plugs in brickwork joints ( made with an axe of course) and nailed and punched fixings into them. Now it is taught in colleges to use gunnable adhesive and a nailgun. I'm sure the modern move towards square skirting is a move to further lessen the skills required for cutting and joining moulded timber.
You also make a good point on the technology side. People seem to have a lot of faith that it will solve all our problems. I think I've mentioned before that faith in technology has largely supplanted faith in gods especially in the western world. In some respects I think we need the likes of Elon Musk to develop new forms of energy creation like fussion because at the moment the bulk of our energy generation is based on the stone age method of setting fire to something. Sometimes going to the opposite end of the spectrum I will watch Star Trek and think with all there replicating tech the only industry that would be viable would be energy. No point storing or keeping anything if you can just programme a computer to make one.
To a degree the original question is and isn't prepping. It's prepping in an economic sense of trying to preserve one's wealth but in other respects it adds nothing to it. My wife has a collection of autographs. The price of some has risen , unfortunately as people pass away , so as an financial investment it's working but as a prepping investment they would be effectively worthless. Nobody can store enough food , clothes , fuel or whatever for the rest of their lives and a combination of stores and income is eminently sensible. I suppose once one has those stocks and the bicycle repair shop set up it becomes a question of not being able to store or work more and becomes one of how to invest excess money. In the bank where it does very little and where it could easily disappear or devalue or into something material that could hopefully outpace inflation .
Arzosah
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Re: Investments

Post by Arzosah »

grenfell wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:55 amMy background is woodworking and I'll admit to being a tad old school. For example I still carry and use an axe but many younger joiners and carpenters haven't even picked one up. for example ,fixing skirting boards used to be carried out with twisting plugs in brickwork joints ( made with an axe of course) and nailed and punched fixings into them. Now it is taught in colleges to use gunnable adhesive and a nailgun. I'm sure the modern move towards square skirting is a move to further lessen the skills required for cutting and joining moulded timber.
There are artisans, as opposed to jobbing carpenters etc, who use the old skills. We've mentioned the Repair Shop on tv, I think, where the skills are used mostly on toys, but there's also Salvage Hunters: The Restorers (Quest, channel 12 on Freeview) - there's a punky-looking guy who lives near Corfe Castle who's an absolute wizard :mrgreen: and a lot of others too. They won't be able to fix things on their own, and of course they need fuel for their furnaces etc, but they all do some amazing things - although again, some of it is on toys.
You also make a good point on the technology side. Thanks! People seem to have a lot of faith that it will solve all our problems. I think I've mentioned before that faith in technology has largely supplanted faith in gods especially in the western world. In some respects I think we need the likes of Elon Musk to develop new forms of energy creation like fussion because at the moment the bulk of our energy generation is based on the stone age method of setting fire to something. Sometimes going to the opposite end of the spectrum I will watch Star Trek and think with all there replicating tech the only industry that would be viable would be energy. No point storing or keeping anything if you can just programme a computer to make one.
Yeah, 3D printing is a bit like the replicator in Star Trek :mrgreen: and while I don't have faith in tech as such, basic tech has been really helpful to us: preserving food, keeping us warmer, mending our teeth. Unless we can get to the asteroids sharpish and start manufacturing up there or something equally far out, I think we're headed back to the 19th century, rather than forward to the 23rd :(
To a degree the original question is and isn't prepping. It's prepping in an economic sense of trying to preserve one's wealth but in other respects it adds nothing to it. My wife has a collection of autographs. The price of some has risen , unfortunately as people pass away , so as an financial investment it's working but as a prepping investment they would be effectively worthless. Nobody can store enough food , clothes , fuel or whatever for the rest of their lives and a combination of stores and income is eminently sensible. I suppose once one has those stocks and the bicycle repair shop set up it becomes a question of not being able to store or work more and becomes one of how to invest excess money. In the bank where it does very little and where it could easily disappear or devalue or into something material that could hopefully outpace inflation .
I like the bit I've bolded. If I had excess money in that sense, I'd definitely be buying land near to a nature reserve or something, and near to me, with the aim of preserving my local environment - there was that piece of global research that said the UK is one of the places most likely to survive any coming apocalypse simply by virtue of it being an island. https://news.sky.com/story/uk-and-irela ... s-12366136 though I don't know why on earth Australia made it onto that list! Anything we can do to help the island's environmental resilience would be a good thing. And if that means using money to buy brownfield sites and set up woodlands and solar farms windmills (not turbines) and bee habitats and the like, then I'd be up for that.
Arzosah
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Re: Investments

Post by Arzosah »

Anglia Ruskin University are the ones that wrote the report https://aru.ac.uk/global-sustainability-institute-gsi
grenfell
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Re: Investments

Post by grenfell »

Yes I've read that. Not sure I agree with it 100% . It seems to make conclusions such as we are better placed than say Germany as we have more agricultural land per head than they do but ignoring the point that we only have that because we've chopped down the forests . It also ignores how much of our land is unsuitable for arable farming. We could be in with a better chance with a reduced population but there are what we might call "overpopulation deniers" who don't see it as a problem and unfortunately some of them hold the reins to power.
I understand that it's made for tv consumption but i find something a bit irritating about the Repair Shop. To me it's the sentimentality that i dislike and the name seems a misnomer too. To me repairing is something done to allow an article to remain in use. Changing a brake pipe on a car to pass the mot so it can be used to get to work is a repair , rebuilding a 1930's car found in a barn just to put it in another glorified barn isn't a repair. It's restored to it's original glory but as it's likely not to be used i have to question the value of the work. Repair shop is like that i feel. You don't see them repairing a washing machine so someone can send their kids to school in clean clothes but if that same person presented their grandfather's toy car that would be the item that was repaired irrespective of it probably never being played with again and ( being cynical here) will probably end up on ebay. I feel that to a degree this sort of programme is very similar to cooking programmes. Though people should really learn the basics it makes for less appealing tv. There should be programmes about how to put a patch on a pair of jeans or simple cookery but the fancy repairs or recipes that viewers probably will never attempt themselves are the ones with the viewing figures. I seem to recall Delia Smith trying something along the lines of the basics starting with how to boil an egg but I don't think it was much of a success.
Excess money can of course mean different things to different people. I have much less than the guy I mentioned earlier who brought a ferrari with his excess. As long as some have an excess then there will be a market and a chance the stuff around us won't become completely worthless.
Arzosah
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Re: Investments

Post by Arzosah »

grenfell wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:06 am Yes I've read that. Not sure I agree with it 100% . It seems to make conclusions such as we are better placed than say Germany as we have more agricultural land per head than they do but ignoring the point that we only have that because we've chopped down the forests . It also ignores how much of our land is unsuitable for arable farming. We could be in with a better chance with a reduced population but there are what we might call "overpopulation deniers" who don't see it as a problem and unfortunately some of them hold the reins to power.
I haven't read it all the way through, you got me :oops: :oops: :oops: Loving your phrase "overpopulation deniers" - they're reality deniers if they don't think we've got a problem with that, in my opinion anyway.
I understand that it's made for tv consumption but i find something a bit irritating about the Repair Shop. To me it's the sentimentality that i dislike and the name seems a misnomer too. To me repairing is something done to allow an article to remain in use. Changing a brake pipe on a car to pass the mot so it can be used to get to work is a repair , rebuilding a 1930's car found in a barn just to put it in another glorified barn isn't a repair. It's restored to it's original glory but as it's likely not to be used i have to question the value of the work. Repair shop is like that i feel. You don't see them repairing a washing machine so someone can send their kids to school in clean clothes but if that same person presented their grandfather's toy car that would be the item that was repaired irrespective of it probably never being played with again and ( being cynical here) will probably end up on ebay.
Yeah, I think that's a bit *too* cynical :lol: though it might end up on ebay in 50 years time, who knows? I don't watch it any more, actually - too sentimental in their choices, though I do accept most of the sentimentality. My point in mentioning Repair Shop was that there are quite a few people in this country who don't use their skills in a way we would consider prepping - but they *do* have the skills, and if national problems got worse and worse, their skills could be re-purposed to protect the food supply and the housing stock. Think of the people who run tourist railways, race vintage cars, look after horses of all kinds (plus donkeys and llamas etc) - those people are in the tourist industry right now, but their skills could be pointed in a completely different way, towards food production and training apprentices.
I feel that to a degree this sort of programme is very similar to cooking programmes. Though people should really learn the basics it makes for less appealing tv. There should be programmes about how to put a patch on a pair of jeans or simple cookery but the fancy repairs or recipes that viewers probably will never attempt themselves are the ones with the viewing figures. I seem to recall Delia Smith trying something along the lines of the basics starting with how to boil an egg but I don't think it was much of a success.
There's the odd attempt, much more recently, about money, cookery ... mmm, can't think of anything else. Kirstie's HandMade Christmas doesn't really work, does it!

I actually agree with 99% of what you're saying, grenfell - it's just a very interesting concept :)
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itsybitsy
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Re: Investments

Post by itsybitsy »

Love this thread!

I've got some silver (Jansman, your advice is invaluable on that score, as usual). Not huge amounts and, since the price went up quite a bit, I've stopped buying and am waiting for a decent dip so I can start investing again. I've got a couple of investments in an ISA wrapper - not massive amounts, but they have increased by 30% since I started investing in them, so I'm happy with that - they are for the long term, of course).

I too will be working, probably until I drop down dead, as I won't be able to afford to retire completely. I'm just hoping that my hands hold out in the long term so I can continue with my side hustle of knitting and selling hats!
jansman
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Re: Investments

Post by jansman »

itsybitsy wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:57 pm Love this thread!

I've got some silver (Jansman, your advice is invaluable on that score, as usual). Not huge amounts and, since the price went up quite a bit, I've stopped buying and am waiting for a decent dip so I can start investing again. I've got a couple of investments in an ISA wrapper - not massive amounts, but they have increased by 30% since I started investing in them, so I'm happy with that - they are for the long term, of course).

I too will be working, probably until I drop down dead, as I won't be able to afford to retire completely. I'm just hoping that my hands hold out in the long term so I can continue with my side hustle of knitting and selling hats!
Just said to Mrs J. That we are back to the 1970’s now. When you can retire you will be knackered.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

Covid 19: After that level of weirdness ,any situation is certainly possible.

Me.
grenfell
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Re: Investments

Post by grenfell »

Arzosah wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:42 pm
Yeah, I think that's a bit *too* cynical :lol: though it might end up on ebay in 50 years time, who knows? I don't watch it any more, actually - too sentimental in their choices, though I do accept most of the sentimentality. My point in mentioning Repair Shop was that there are quite a few people in this country who don't use their skills in a way we would consider prepping - but they *do* have the skills, and if national problems got worse and worse, their skills could be re-purposed to protect the food supply and the housing stock. Think of the people who run tourist railways, race vintage cars, look after horses of all kinds (plus donkeys and llamas etc) - those people are in the tourist industry right now, but their skills could be pointed in a completely different way, towards food production and training apprentices.
]There's the odd attempt, much more recently, about money, cookery ... mmm, can't think of anything else. Kirstie's HandMade Christmas doesn't really work, does it!
There's probably some mathematical connection between increasing age along side with increasing cynicism :D
You're right that we should be looking at retraining and repurposing people. I do feel the pandemic has shown us a vision of the future to some degree. We had to stop flying all over the world for instance and as resources deplete the same will in all likelihood be true in the future but the powers that be and in all honesty the majority of the population don't see it as a sign , just a situation that we should be looking to return to "normal" . It would be easy to get very political here so I won't say much but that retraining is going to have to be government run as the "market" isn't going to do it.
Kirstie's handmade show? Works to get viewing figures I guess but how many people actually do what she does or just say "stuff it , too much work" and go to tesco instead? I'd put money on it being more of the later.
Not sure whether this classes as an investment but I'm currently putting a porch on the house and have had the materials for sometime now , the tiles , and lead for the roof and some very nice yellow pine to make the door with.
jansman
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Re: Investments

Post by jansman »

A porch insulates the room it covers; so I’d say it’s an investment.
In three words I can sum up everything I have learned about life: It goes on.

Robert Frost.

Covid 19: After that level of weirdness ,any situation is certainly possible.

Me.
Arzosah
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Re: Investments

Post by Arzosah »

A porch is definitely an investment! Insulation, storage space, another layer between you and the outside ... all good things.