Power! Help!

[Survivalist85]

Hi all. Iv done a quick search and cant seem to find anything directly on topic of this but if anyone feels this should be blended or moved please do.

I have recently started searching for a BOL and may have found a perfect little "shack" out of the civilised world as i know it. As i would like to spend time there working on my BOB INCH & other kits i would like some power to fall back on as its miles from the main line. I started looking at solar as i have previously worked in the industry ( but not paying enough attention at the time) and wondered if i could run things on it. I came across several kits to run my ipad or charge a phone on route to the BOL but nothing to run the "shack". I then found the Goal Zero Yeti 1250 and this seemed great......BUT extremely pricey!! so looking on here and several shop sites it seemed that people were running caravans and other areas on kits they had build themselves.

Then i compared the price of solar to a generator. The power output of a generator is much higher.....but so is the noise and the fact it needs fuel of some sort. SO.....i looked into a bio diesel "factory" unit. This still needs you to top it up from WVO or Normal cooking oil, which you could stock up on i guess.

From reviews of both the generator comes out on top but isnt ever lasting.....where the sun is. But then do i combine the solar with a wind turbine adding extra cost but ensuring power free for a long time. Or is there a simple way around this? Am i over thinking it?

Any input would be great guys & gals. Thanks in advance from the north east!


Survivalist

[Chippa Fate]

Hi

first the questions.. what do you plan to run on elect power, calculate power required in watts? What voltage do you need and for how long does it need to run?

Unless you need 240 volts for a bit of kit, and you can not do with out it, use 12 volts dc. No inverter, safe and easy to store. When designing a system try and make it simple.
Led (lights) are cheap power full and really economical and 12volt dc. radios tv freezer heaters and computers all are available on the same voltage.

So you want a easy cheap system ?, try x2 12v deep cycle batteries (lead acid cheapest but be careful of fumes), a few 12v dc sockets (they make them , diff colour from 240) an inline fuse to each
socket and main battery connector then a couple of pre-made caravan/boat trickle charge solar panels, slap em together and u got a system that will do, supplement it with a human
powered generator and u got healthy exercise and free recharging at night.

If you got oodooles of cash and live in a forest area, get a re-burning wood gas, powered generator. You just feed it wood and your done, hooks into existing ac system
with x over switch and smoke/noise is greatly reduced.

I'm actively seeking a Bug out location, or more accurately the land to build a secure, obscure and off grid retreat. I also have reviewed power requirements, including water wheel generation,
and have decided on a 12v dc system with solar as the prime recharge and wood gas burning (converted petrol) generator plus emergency back up's.

hope it helps or at least asks some useful questions about your kit and power requirements.

[Arzosah]

I don't think there's one answer, tbh ... for instance, if you're out in the wilds, and wanting to be off grid, shall we say, then using a rocket stove/haybox for cooking is one way of cutting down power consumption - from what I've read, thats what its about, getting the power you use as low as possible, and then looking at ways of supplying that minimalised power. From another angle, before you look at what you need for heating, your shack (love it!) needs to be insulated as highly as possible, so you get the most bang per buck out of what heating you *do* put in. For enough hot water for a good shower, for instance, you could put water out to heat in a couple of solar shower bags (Wilkinsons sell them) and if you wanted it properly hot at the end of the day, finish it off in a bucket or something over the stove/kelley kettle/whatever you decide.

I do agree with Chippa Fate about the 12v thing, absolutely, it seems to be the way to go.

[Survivalist85]

Thanks to you both for your very valid input to this! Chippa - Thanks and If your interested in meeting up sometime soon then Im up for that. Im working just outside the city now and have some ideas about local prepping. I would also try to get others involved if it all works out.

As for power i was thinking more if TSHTF situations then obviously batteries for coms - a panasonic toughbook if possible and the rest i will live without. Possible heater needed but i can work around that with warm clothes and a hot water bottle. But also if i manage to secure the shack im looking at then i would like to spend time there normally to sort preps out and test equipment. I will look into a 12v system ( unless i win the lottery ) and hope it runs all that is needed. Thank you both again for your valued input and im sure ill be in touch with more problems soon!

Regards


Survivalist

[Briggs]

Solar panels are a good idea as people above me have already said and I've been playing with solar in my 'shack' for a while.

Perhaps investigate gel batteries instead of lead acid. There are no fumes from gel and from my experience, the gel batteries maintain a steady 12v longer than the lead acid car battery type. Not so heavy either.

If your shack is in some form of cover bear in mind that even a tiny amount of shade from a branch above will have a large effect on the panels efficiency. I'm no expert but I understand it's to do with how the cells are wired inside the panel, so one small bit of shade in a corner effects a larger area of the panel. I've got a huge Oak over mine and the panel's performance is considerably reduced when there's leaves on the tree.

I've played around with moving my 80W panel to where it has a better view of the sun but if you do this you must take into account the diameter of the cables you use. Go too far from the battery using a thin a cable diameter and you will lose power due to resistance. (Ohm's Law, not mine!). Also, if you are running multiple lights from one battery source, the cable lengths need to be roughly the same otherwise the light that is farthest from the battery will be dimmer.

I'm using a mix of lamps. I've got some 12v compact fluorescent bulbs that produce about the same as a 60w standard bulb but they only draw 9w. These are pretty good and fit into standard BC, ES or SES holders. EBay for these or do a search online. These are okay but I've had a few go faulty and at £5 a go, it's expensive. I'm switching over to use neon LEDs. I've seen some 50w equivalent GU10 lamps in LED versions that only draw 5W so I'm going to give these a test this winter. Look for led hut on the web, they have a 12 volt section there.

Now that the sun is getting lower in the sky, the solar panel should ideally be adjusted so it's perpendicular to the sun's rays. I haven't tried this yet, but I'm planning to fit hinge on one end of my panel and a a scissor jack at the other end so that I can adjust its angle according to the time of year.

I hope this helps you out with your plans and good luck with your shack.

I consider my 80W panel to be not much more than a trickle charger. The total power load in my cabin is 3 x 9watt lamps and the occasional use of the 12v water pump and an iPhone being charged up. It's no where near 80w but the panel would not cope with this load if there wasn't a battery in the circuit, it just trickle charges the battery back up. What I really need is another 80watt panel.

Here's some blurb which explains panels and their power output. (not written by me, I hasten to add).

The figure you will be quoted by manufacturers is the 'peak power' of the panel. Essentially, it's the maximum you can expect to get from the solar panel in UK conditions - your 80 Watt solar panel will be giving about 80 Watts on a cloudless summer day at noon, if the panel is pointing directly at the sun. Of course, it isn't always sunny, and very few people have tracking devices to allow the panels to follow the sun. However, in the middle of summer in a good location in the UK, you can expect to get on average about four hours of full power output each day. That means that your 80 Watt solar panel will give you about 320 Watt-hours of energy on a summer day. For a 12 volt system, that corresponds to 26.7 Amp-hours put back into your battery bank each day. On sunny days, you will get more; on overcast days you will get less.


In winter there are fewer hours of daylight, it's often more overcast, and the sun is lower in the sky - which means that sunlight has a longer path through the atmosphere before it hits your solar panel. All these factors combine to reduce the output from the panel. In the depths of a dismal winter you may only get around one hour of full power output on average. So, your 80 Watt solar panel will only be giving you about 80 Watt-hours of energy per day in the worst case. For a 12 volt battery, that corresponds to 6.7 Amp-hours.
These figures assume that the panel is facing south, at the optimum angle, and are unshaded. You may get less if your conditions aren't perfect. They also assume the use of an MPPT regulator - with a standard regulator you will typically get between 10 and 20% lower output. Also, further north in the UK the difference between summer and winter will be greater.

[Arzosah]

Thank you both again for your valued input ...

You're welcome! Chippa and Briggs are obviously a lot more technically knowledgeable and practical than me, but I've had such a lot of help from people on here, anything I can feed back in, I will.