group survival?

[Briggs 2.0]

Wait wait. I didn't call him bastard. I suggested that person behaving like he describes may be seen as bastard by neighbours. As about gangs: once law stops exist people will do bad things and they will stick together as groups ( remember riots from London few years back?). Go to worse areas of your town and you will see groups of people standing on streets and they don't look friendly. Once shtf they will hang together, don't you think so?
As about my prepps I am rather beginner and I am not preparing for massive shtf but rather for short term problems so will never stock more than months supplies. As about gathering water, there is beck close to where I live an I can boil the water in the back garden even by burning bits of my fence

So, essentially you don't prep on a scale to positively support a group, just for yourself, yet you advocate joining a group.

[J23]

Wait wait. I didn't call him bastard. I suggested that person behaving like he describes may be seen as bastard by neighbours. As about gangs: once law stops exist people will do bad things and they will stick together as groups ( remember riots from London few years back?). Go to worse areas of your town and you will see groups of people standing on streets and they don't look friendly. Once shtf they will hang together, don't you think so?
As about my prepps I am rather beginner and I am not preparing for massive shtf but rather for short term problems so will never stock more than months supplies. As about gathering water, there is beck close to where I live an I can boil the water in the back garden even by burning bits of my fence

So, essentially you don't prep on a scale to positively support a group, just for yourself, yet you advocate joining a group.

First of all I don't have a group, would like to have one but I don't and it is hard to gather group like that among neighbours, but still you need to be in good relationships with them as they might help you. as about positive support - skills are a good support. besides I am not fanatic prepper, I guess I am not prepper at all, not by standards some people here have anyway. I like the idea of prepping but I am reasonable and I don't dream of living in shtf scenario. I carry some tools, multitool knife, flashlight, bottle of water, lighter, small personal first aid kit etc in my rucksack as these may be handy in everyday's life, I stock some water and cans at home and they rotate.
As about collapse of the country - even if it will happen (I doubt it will in nearest future) it won't last for long - look back into dark ages - there were always people who did rule every piece of land.

[lonewolf]

Wait wait. I didn't call him bastard.

that's ok, I've been called worse, in any case I AM a bastard and I've got a certificate to prove it

[lonewolf]

I might agree with all this stuff about needing to be in a group if I was in a large city like London or Birmingham or such, then a large group would be needed for survival just because of the millions of people that reside in those places, however I say don't confuse places like that with rural, fairly remote areas like Devon, once you get out of Devon's cities(there are only 2) and get away from the coast and residential hubs the population begins to fall away rapidly and gets less and less the further you go inland. I'm sure Briggs and Plymton know what I mean.

[lonewolf]

I am not fanatic prepper, I guess I am not prepper at all, not by standards some people here have anyway. I like the idea of prepping but I am reasonable and I don't dream of living in shtf scenario. I carry some tools, multitool knife, flashlight, bottle of water, lighter, small personal first aid kit etc in my rucksack as these may be handy in everyday's life, I stock some water and cans at home and they rotate.
As about collapse of the country - even if it will happen (I doubt it will in nearest future) it won't last for long - look back into dark ages - there were always people who did rule every piece of land.

there are plenty of people like yourself who prep for the smaller events of like, unemployment, sickness, rising prices, maybe the odd power cut, or an industry shut down but nothing major. I call such people preppers-they prepare for life's hiccups and minor eventualities, I'm not a prepper, I'm planning for the "biggie", the breakup of the EU, financial collapse, civil disturbance, then riots, and the eventual collapse of society, I refer to myself as a survivalist, I am planning to survive when all about me are falling by the wayside.

[Plymtom]

I might agree with all this stuff about needing to be in a group if I was in a large city like London or Birmingham or such, then a large group would be needed for survival just because of the millions of people that reside in those places, however I say don't confuse places like that with rural, fairly remote areas like Devon, once you get out of Devon's cities(there are only 2) and get away from the coast and residential hubs the population begins to fall away rapidly and gets less and less the further you go inland. I'm sure Briggs and Plymton know what I mean.

Plymouth's a bitch to get out of I'm near the city center close to the sea, frankly there are very few ways out, so bug in and team up would be the order of the day as things stand, Devon is just about the biggest county in the country ( certainly has the most roads) and as LW says particularly in the north it gets very rural, The moors and there are two cover a lot of area, but are familiar to the city dwellers who mill around them like ants on a warm day, and when you think about it they (The Moors) were deforested and made barren to a large degree by our ancestors, and are deliberately kept that way now.
I do believe the rural folk will band together fairly well, because in many ways they still hold on to a keep it local attitude which helps, cities are another ball game entirely and vary hugely throughout, some suburbs are like little towns with clear boundaries, but the original plan for cities has fallen on it's bottom, we built them to bring people together to work in large groups (Communities in themselves) they once went to things like pubs, working men's clubs and churches even, chin-wagged with one another in the corner shops ( and there was barely a corner without one), the demise of large work places and the rise of TV and other home entertainment has caused such social isolation that would have seemed unbelievable to happen to anyone asked 50-60 years ago. Humans naturally group together, yes you get the odd loner but if you understand them they're alright.

[lonewolf]

I know what you mean about Plymouth plymton, I spend my last 8 years in the city living in Ernesettle, not far from the "creek", if I wanted to get out of there now, I wouldn't bother with the roads but walk out over the railway line that runs over the bridge at the bottom of the estate, I've done it a few times when I wanted to go fishing!!

[Wulfshead]

Like Lonewolf I and many, many more are prepping for the 'big one'.
But unlike Lonewolf those I interact with are prepping for personal and family needs for 72 hours to get to our eventual gathering place.
The group I am a member of is only just one group among a larger group of people who share the same interests, beliefs and direction.
Although we are agreed in both the short term prepping needs and the long term the problems of forming a solid group are that which have been pointed out earlier in this thread.
For us, of the group/s I interact with the role of leadership has been worked out on a very old module whereby there is not one leader but a counsel made up by those which have experience in virtually every aspect that is likely to encroach on the daily working of a group.
Take one of our newest members here, and a friend and brother of mine, Oathsworn, he is learning butchery so as to take his part in the social providing for himself and the wider gathered folk.
I have little worry about defending myself with a weapon but I do not like the idea of killing an animal if another would do it, I'll trade what I'm confident in with doing what another is confident with doing.

Then there are the early moves by people that have had enough of the way our country is going and are moving in the direction of forming PLEs (places of little England, or Places of little Europe on the continent)
That shows that there is a definite feeling of strength and protection in the gathering together of like minded people.

People by virtue are tribal and seek out a leader, that why an idea becomes a cult becomes a religion becomes a way of life and death. When the big one does come then the dregs of society will quickly eat their 3 meals away from anarchy and then be roaming for their next meal.
One of my biggest arguments for keeping a nuclear arms cache is the big stick scenario. 'If I have a big stick somebody also with a big stick will think twice about attacking me'.
It's the same with a group of 50 or so people who are willing to defend when needed and work when needed. A roaming group would probably give an established and organised large group a wide berth because they know that what they can do so can another group to them.

I'm 51 now and I am proud to say I know a fair bit about how to use new and old technology to mess with the heads of a large group with designs on ruining my day. Today's hand held radios are cheap and adaptable to solar charging. Now given that the range will vary from 2 miles to 6 miles that gives a group a very long time to make an aggressive incoming group decide to go via another route, LP/OPs would not need to be sited more than 2 miles away from the main group.
That is just one reason why I personally see a group as the direction to prep in and why we are doing such.

I can respect the lone wolf type but it needs a strength of being far greater than I or most poses, if you have that strength then I tip my hat and wish you every success when the big one cometh.

Wulfshead

[J23]

Like Lonewolf I and many, many more are prepping for the 'big one'.
But unlike Lonewolf those I interact with are prepping for personal and family needs for 72 hours to get to our eventual gathering place.
The group I am a member of is only just one group among a larger group of people who share the same interests, beliefs and direction.
Although we are agreed in both the short term prepping needs and the long term the problems of forming a solid group are that which have been pointed out earlier in this thread.
For us, of the group/s I interact with the role of leadership has been worked out on a very old module whereby there is not one leader but a counsel made up by those which have experience in virtually every aspect that is likely to encroach on the daily working of a group.
Take one of our newest members here, and a friend and brother of mine, Oathsworn, he is learning butchery so as to take his part in the social providing for himself and the wider gathered folk.
I have little worry about defending myself with a weapon but I do not like the idea of killing an animal if another would do it, I'll trade what I'm confident in with doing what another is confident with doing.

Then there are the early moves by people that have had enough of the way our country is going and are moving in the direction of forming PLEs (places of little England, or Places of little Europe on the continent)
That shows that there is a definite feeling of strength and protection in the gathering together of like minded people.

People by virtue are tribal and seek out a leader, that why an idea becomes a cult becomes a religion becomes a way of life and death. When the big one does come then the dregs of society will quickly eat their 3 meals away from anarchy and then be roaming for their next meal.
One of my biggest arguments for keeping a nuclear arms cache is the big stick scenario. 'If I have a big stick somebody also with a big stick will think twice about attacking me'.
It's the same with a group of 50 or so people who are willing to defend when needed and work when needed. A roaming group would probably give an established and organised large group a wide berth because they know that what they can do so can another group to them.

I'm 51 now and I am proud to say I know a fair bit about how to use new and old technology to mess with the heads of a large group with designs on ruining my day. Today's hand held radios are cheap and adaptable to solar charging. Now given that the range will vary from 2 miles to 6 miles that gives a group a very long time to make an aggressive incoming group decide to go via another route, LP/OPs would not need to be sited more than 2 miles away from the main group.
That is just one reason why I personally see a group as the direction to prep in and why we are doing such.

I can respect the lone wolf type but it needs a strength of being far greater than I or most poses, if you have that strength then I tip my hat and wish you every success when the big one cometh.

Wulfshead

sounds great, but out of curiosity - how did you manage to find quite large group of people willing to prepp and gather?
I kept looking at my neighbours and to be honest out of 10-12 nearest houses I see maybe 2 people that might share my idea (might, not sure if they would), rest seems to be middle-class people convinced they are safe

[Wulfshead]

J23,
You need to stop thinking locally if you deem that the folk around you are not going to be anything of use in a major SHTF scenario.
I am however part of an interest group which has a cultural and historic core to its ethos.
As I elude in my post you cite, there are separate groups that follow a like ethos and thus a friendship/brotherhood exists between separate groups.
Now those groups are spread all over England, a few in wider parts of Britain, America and Europe but mainly in Northern Europe for the greater part of the European groups.
It follows that, like in my personal case, that a fellow I met on an interest forum who lives a few miles from me is a member of a group that I am not a member of. That group is an established group who meet regularly in England. It then follows that my friend will mention this bloke or that bloke from such and such a group and give his critique as he sees fit. Now in my case I had a few drinks with the fellow and was introduced to more of his group that live in and around my location. Over time I helped my friend on projects and he helped me with work on my home and that of my other family members homes.
Now I do not expect that every thing I think or do is exactly the same as my friend but I seem to be reading from the same page as he and his friends, I then become known as a brother and a safe person within his group and so on and so on until I was accepted among the wider groups as a known ally .
This is not a thing that happens overnight but takes time to build a network that one can function within and as part of.
I do not pretend that we are ready now, much depends on future financing of land that members are seeking to obtain, but we are heading in the right direction.
Some of the group I am personally involved with are in a position to move to and keep watch on things when we move to the next level in our direction.

What is important is that you allow time to make contacts and judge them for their benefit in the possible future turn of events. You must also realise that those contacts will expect something from you as there's no such thing as a free lunch.
To give you some idea though, I have mentioned I joined UK Preppers to those I interact with and this forum is relatively unknown to them.
Are you involved with groups outside the prepping sphere and if so can you casually introduce your worries and your concerns that there 'might' be a need to start prepping ? You never know what doors will open and what the future holds.
To give you a bit of encouragement though, through the groups I interact with around Britain and Northern Europe I would say there are many. many thousands of people who have covert prepping as a part of their group structures

I'm sorry I can't be more specific and I hope I have answered some of your questions.

Wulfshead