Retreating abroad

[Wasp]

I mentioned in my welcome thread ( viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11686 ) about planning to bug out and retreat to a different country.

I want to get a discussion going about the best way to do it and what is needed, etc.


So, I'm starting to prep to dig in (or bug in... why bug in and not dig in ? ) for three months if SHTF. I think that this would be enough time to let the worst of the initial troubles pass. If it still is a case of SHTF, then a retreat to another country is in order.

I have family over in Eastern Europe, who we can go to join - in their part of the world, self-sufficiency is a lot more common and there is plenty of food grown agriculturally in their area so I can be self-sufficient and find work if need be to start again.
The problem is going to be getting there.

Google maps (other map services are available) puts the distance at approximately 2000 miles, which means mechanical transport unless I want to spend over three weeks walking...

Obviously the approach will be dependant on the severity of collapse and whether it is just this country or a wider problem. My initial thought is to stock up on fuel a bit and then drive there - alternating driver to never stop moving except for refuel, should take 32 hours plus delays. I figure this minimises the risks of being in areas where we aren't known and we don't know the locale.

How to get the car to the continent? Ferry/boat - would they still be running? Chunnel? Has the advantage that if it is the end of the world, it should possibly be driveable in the centre tunnel.

Which country would you all go to or have plans to go to? How would you get there? What would you do when you get there? Do you have a retreat there already?

[Hamradioop]

If you are going to go over the channel to family in Europe. I would not recommend digging in as you will probably have to liberate a sail boat to get across the channel. I would say you will have to go ASAP and not hang around. Your plan to rely on the service tunnel of the Chunnel is basedook war plan uk on it being accessible. it may well be destroyed or under heavy military guard. The ferry will probably not be running because of government restrictions/ requestioning.

just my thoughts, but based on the book War Plan UK by Duncan Campbell
Year: 1983 Pub: Paladin (revised ed.)

Synopsis

Secret civil defence plans stress sealing off roads against refugees, interning protestors and pacifists, and impounding food and fuel supplies.

There will be no rescue and no medical aid for the trapped and dying in the aftermath of a nuclear attack.

Millions will die in nuclear target areas as a direct result of government civil defence policies.

Protection for the 'privileged few' -full details of hundreds of bunkers.

see http://www.duncancampbell.org/content/war-plan-uk.

Well a lot of the bunkers may have been sold off but a lot of this still makes sense from the point of view of the PTB and the Military

[grenfell]

You've mention " we " and swapping drivers so I'm assuming there's at least two of you . Are there any kids involved as the younger they are the harder work they are especially if you're talking of a 2000 mile trip. Car or if they are still running a train would be pretty much the only option really as trying to walk or cycle that distance through a potentially turbulent area is fraught with problems. I've got a nine year old and would seriously have to think twice about it but as we now have a foster child less than a year old it really would need to be the apocalypse to make us attempt it. 2000 miles walking in over three weeks would be optimistic at best , it could take nearer three months if conditions are bad or long detours unavoidable.
That said I can applaud the planning. A couple of things I would add , firstly however you are travelling it's not possible to carry huge amounts of food and gear unless you are bugging out in an artic so you are likely to need a fair amount of cash or precious metals and be prepared to pay over the odds and secondly language. I'm assuming as you have family over there you are fluent ? If not that too could be a major problem if you aren't to become a refugee or a burden to your family.

[hobo]

I think the most likely event that would have me waving bye bye to these shores might be this country going further down the road of austerity. It would depend on how bad it actually gets.

I've been politically active all my adult life (40 years with very few, small victories). Next Saturday I start a course on political activism AND attending an NHS demo! Though I am seriously questioning myself why!

Do I bail out if given the opportunity or stay and fight for what I think is right for my country? Do my countrymen and women actually care? The only ties I have here are my immediate family - the last generation of Hobos have all gone. My kids have already decided they want to study at Universities in certain European countries (no fees). We're only a few years from that happening.

Maybe it's time for that camper van adventure I've always wanted....I could try and work my way with my camera, laptop, paints and music....blogging, designing, painting and playing?

If the event was sudden, I wouldn't try and leg it. Bugging in would be my only option. If I was able to pre-empt it, I might consider going to where I have family or friends - Norway, France or Spain are my options.

[junmist]

If you are going would it not be better to go now and settle in the community before SHTF rather than trying to go through many countries with many langue's.
We are thinking about this as well but the larger family wishes to stay here so do we go and give them a safe place in another country or stay and dig in

[unsure]

If you are going would it not be better to go now and settle in the community before SHTF rather than trying to go through many countries with many langue's.
We are thinking about this as well but the larger family wishes to stay here so do we go and give them a safe place in another country or stay and dig in

stay , dig in and fight for whats yours .i`d rather stick around than be a refugee in another country .

[grenfell]

Not wanting to come across as some sort of doomer but I wouldn't personally be looking at Eastern Europe as the ideal place to retreat to given the potential for conflict in that area. The "big boys" do seem to be squaring up for a scrap and given even a small escalation it could become very dangerous.
From an historical viewpoint the area has seen many different armies going east and west and borders that have changed many times.

[Wasp]

Some good points and questions raised - which is the idea, no?

We is, at the moment, my wife and myself. So no kids to take care of, which makes life easier.

The idea is that we have a blitz run across. Minimize travel time and cut risk exposure and it also reduces the amount of food we need to carry - if need be we can survive for a couple of days on emergency rations.

Language isn't too much of a concern. (Not to blow my own trumpet) I can speak French and German reasonably well and I'm making decent progress with Russian. My wife is fluent in Russian (native tongue), Romanianand several other languages as well. The country we're heading to is Russian and Romanian speaking. I'm an engineer, so I should be able to find work anywhere or find something to do to make myself useful. Fixing cars, machinery, farm equipment. Worst case, I can work as a driver for a relative, so I should be able to pull my own weight.

We would be heading to Moldova, which isn't a threat to anyone militarily or rich in resources and has no strategic importance. So I don't think any outsiders are going to be fighting over it a great deal. I could be wrong, but I can't see any reason not to go there. It is also somewhat neutral - non-NATO, non-EU, not pro-EU or pro-Russia. Does business with both, maybe a little more EU friendly than Russia as it has a close relationship with Romania. But then, if the nukes do start flying, it will probably be safer than the UK...

Not going now, I've got a pretty good job here. I will move out there eventually, to enjoy the fruits of my labour. Hopefully the SHTF won't happen for a few years... but if it does I want to be ready.
I want to build up my skills (language and technical) before moving anywhere. That way I'm more likely to be welcomed than if I just turn up shouting English and being as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Hobo,
personally I would recommend Norway - small population and doesn't tend to interfere with other countries. Just my 2p.


What other languages would be useful?
What skills should I be training myself in? (I'm thinking of doing survival training)
Should I be looking at trying to get other people in on this and go in convoy?

Another question, kind of related.
In a SHTF scenario, do you think it is better to be a "grey man" and try to pass unnoticed or go the other way and have an aggressive, obviously armed/ready stance to deter potential aggressors?
I'd lean to the latter personally.

[BaseOne]

unless I want to spend over three weeks walking...

Agree that walking wouldn't be the best plan. For a long distance trip like that, 2000 miles (3200km), a realistic "daily budget" would be 15km per day (allowing for navigating, navigation errors, setting up shelter, sourcing supplies, etc). That's 7+ months.

Also expect to get through 2-3 pairs of decent walking boots (more if using cheap boots and/or walking a lot on stone/tarmac rather than soft soil).

If you have relatives and connections to Moldova, you're probably also aware of the rumours that Putin might want to bring Moldova "under his care" and that there is an active political movement in Moldova which supports annexation by Russia.

[CynicalSurvival]

In terms of destination, it sounds like you've thought it through.

I'd agree with Junmist that there is an argument for going sooner rather than later, to make better links with the locals rather than being one of perhaps many refugees at a later date, even if you do already have some family there.

In terms of transport, can you sail? lol... Probably, if running, a ferry would be more reliable than chunnel, but it depends where you live. I'd be sticking a couple of bikes in the car in case you run out of fuel and are unable to get more. I am assuming you have some contacts that can help you out once you arrive.

I would on the whole agree with Grenfell that Eastern Europe wouldn't be my first choice destination at the present time but good luck and I hope all goes well for Moldova and the current conflicts don't spread too far, because I'm sure it's a wonderful place and a better climate than here for self-sufficiency!