What would we run out of first?

[yorkshirewolf]

I think in a SHTF situation, the first thing we would run out of would be our humanity.

[grenfell]

I suppose we'd be forced to grow soapwort lol.

I've got a patch of soapwort , growing it isn't a problem . Stopping it on the other hand is. It tends to spread quite a bit and happily tunnels under the paths. As I've got quite a bit of open space just a couple of minutes walk away I'm thinking of it as an ideal candidate for a spot of guerrilla gardening

[PreparedKent]

Biomass is available in abundance in the form of wood chippings and shredded refuse. When I worked in forestry we used to coppice on land and then the wood would naturally grow back.... The amount of non recyclable refuse we have could fire up Incinerators to generate power. Here in Kent all our refuse is burned to generate energy.

We would have to go back to farming, our current membership of the EU means that we don't give our British farmers the business they need at the price it deserves. Biodiesel would be available in the form of oilseed rape which is grown in the UK.

We just need to slow down on the population growth and resulting deforestation of our great land to maintain our self sufficiency in times of need.

[redskies]

I suppose we'd be forced to grow soapwort lol.

I've got a patch of soapwort , growing it isn't a problem . Stopping it on the other hand is. It tends to spread quite a bit and happily tunnels under the paths. As I've got quite a bit of open space just a couple of minutes walk away I'm thinking of it as an ideal candidate for a spot of guerrilla gardening

It's good stuff


If you're wanting to keep it under control, just clean, chop and dry the roots as you pull it up. They keep for years, especially if vacuum packed. If you want to make a soapy liquid, put a small handful in a pot, add three pints of water or so, simmer for twenty minutes and leave to steep for a few hours. You can wash yourself and anything else with the resulting liquid.

The other really good one is Indian Soapnuts. We use them for laundry and I use them for washing fleece. You can also use them to wash yourself - same deal with the simmering and steeping. For laundry, they go in a wee bag in the machine. A kilo costs about a tenner from Salveo, they keep for years and with a family of six, a kilo lasts us about six months, including me using a dozen at a time for fleece.


I'm not sure we'd actually run out of anything we need. For a long time now, we've been gradually switching to things we can make or grow ourselves. Things we want are a different matter!

[MissAnpassad]

The other really good one is Indian Soapnuts. We use them for laundry and I use them for washing fleece. You can also use them to wash yourself - same deal with the simmering and steeping. For laundry, they go in a wee bag in the machine. A kilo costs about a tenner from Salveo, they keep for years and with a family of six, a kilo lasts us about six months, including me using a dozen at a time for fleece.

That's a kilo that have travelled halfway around the world. Not very organic at all, especially since we have plants in Europe with high levels of saponin (the active ingredient), which many you can forage for free right outside your door even if you live in the city.

[redskies]

The other really good one is Indian Soapnuts. We use them for laundry and I use them for washing fleece. You can also use them to wash yourself - same deal with the simmering and steeping. For laundry, they go in a wee bag in the machine. A kilo costs about a tenner from Salveo, they keep for years and with a family of six, a kilo lasts us about six months, including me using a dozen at a time for fleece.

That's a kilo that have travelled halfway around the world. Not very organic at all, especially since we have plants in Europe with high levels of saponin (the active ingredient), which many you can forage for free right outside your door even if you live in the city.

We don't live in the city. We are a minimum of four and a half hours travel from any city. In an area where things that grow elsewhere in the UK won't grow because of our microclimate.

We use as much locally sourced produce as we can, down to the fleece that I process, spin and weave. We grow what we can, even indoor lemon trees. But there are many things that simply will not grow outdoors here because of the weather conditions.


Given that I've been making soap from caustic soda and oils for the last six years, using soapwort for the last decade, and am an accomplished herbal healer of over twenty five years experience, I'm well aware of what saponins are and where to find them, thanks. I'm equally aware of the travel involved in bringing soapnuts here. On the flip side of that, rather than support supermarkets etc, we choose to support cooperatives that pay reasonable prices to the people who provide the goods for sale. Many items move around the world in such a context, starting with the phone, tablet or PC that you are using and moving on from there.

I don't think we have the same definition and interpretation of organic, given the context you've used it in.

[Arzosah]

redskies, I would *love* to hear more about your lemon trees in particular, and what herbs you find it most useful to grow as well.

And what nursery you recommend for online purchase of soapwort

[MissAnpassad]

We don't live in the city. We are a minimum of four and a half hours travel from any city. In an area where things that grow elsewhere in the UK won't grow because of our microclimate.

I find it quit hard to believe that you can find a place in the UK with harsher growing conditions than here. And by he way, I wrote forage, not grow. Where in the UK do you have a subarctic climate?

Many items move around the world in such a context, starting with the phone, tablet or PC that you are using and moving on from there.

I don't think we have the same definition and interpretation of organic, given the context you've used it in.

What in gods name was that? And for your information, I don´t even own a phone and my computer is salvaged, so your attempt to try and turn the blame on me failed miserably. I don't even buy cotton unless is it's secondhand and I definitely don't buy petroleum by products like polyester, so you can't try that one either.
Yes, our definitions of organic is miles apart, mine actually is. It will never include products with unnecessary shippings.

[redskies]

redskies, I would *love* to hear more about your lemon trees in particular, and what herbs you find it most useful to grow as well.

And what nursery you recommend for online purchase of soapwort

They're just seeds from standard lemons. I start them off in a self watering container made from an old wine bottle, and put a bag over the top of the soil. When they're germinated, the bag comes off and as they get big enough, they go onto larger pots. We'll get lemons from them when they're older! We have a storey and a half house, so our bedroom, which is west facing, has a velux window - it's a perfect wee green house. I have the trees, various culinary herbs like basil, and arnica, witchazel, tea tree and golden seal plants too. If we can ever find a spot for a walipini, I'll be growing a LOT more!

Medicinally, the following basic list is what I consider useful, especially as we have facilities to dry, freeze dry and are building equipment to distill essential oils.


Rosemary
Sage
Lavender
Geranium
Tea Tree
Echinacea
Witchazel
Arnica
Clary Sage
Peppermint
Turmeric
Ginger


That's a pretty short list - I have a longer one stashed away.


If you want seeds or plants, I can't recommend Poyntzfield Herb Nursery highly enough. We visited this year on a trip to the area, and it's one of the most amazing places I've ever been - and that's before I spent an hour wandering around oohing and ahhhing over the plants she has. Place was built in the mid 1800's and the kaleyard is huge and surrounded by 12ft walls. She's got glass houses and poly tunnels in there too, and the whole carries an air of incredible serenity and life. Lady that runs it clearly knows her stuff, and is extremely talented. Their online list of medicinal herbs pretty much made me drool, and a friend who likes to cook did likewise over the list of culinary herbs - we came back with a car full of plants for the pair of us! You'll find her website here - http://poyntzfieldherbs.co.uk/

[redskies]

We don't live in the city. We are a minimum of four and a half hours travel from any city. In an area where things that grow elsewhere in the UK won't grow because of our microclimate.

I find it quit hard to believe that you can find a place in the UK with harsher growing conditions than here. And by he way, I wrote forage, not grow. Where in the UK do you have a subarctic climate?

Many items move around the world in such a context, starting with the phone, tablet or PC that you are using and moving on from there.

I don't think we have the same definition and interpretation of organic, given the context you've used it in.

What in gods name was that? And for your information, I don´t even own a phone and my computer is salvaged, so your attempt to try and turn the blame on me failed miserably. I don't even buy cotton unless is it's secondhand and I definitely don't buy petroleum by products like polyester, so you can't try that one either.
Yes, our definitions of organic is miles apart, mine actually is. It will never include products with unnecessary shippings.

There is little actually made in the UK. Seriously. We can't even feed ourselves off the land - if we'd only been eating our own home grown food this year, the cupboard would have been bare about the middle of August.


Take your sanctimonious waffle and stuff it. I have far better things to do with my time.


PS. Growing conditions don't have to be arctic to be untenable for many plants. You might find it hard to believe that such places exist in the UK, but they do. No, I am not telling you where, because that would give away my location. You can say you're from Sweden, safe in the knowledge that folk would have to work quite hard to find you. If I tell you where in the UK I live, anyone reading the info can track me down in about ten minutes flat.