Another little step towards a cashless society.

[Arzosah]

Just coming at this from another angle today ... I've just spent 45 minutes on the phone with my bank. I'm not a happy bunny, and I'm being so, so understated ....

I cashed in an ISA. I opened an online saver with the same provider, but the money had to boomerang through my current account (with the bank that I've been with for 30 years ...). I sent an experimental £5 through, to link up the accounts, I'm not sending ISA-level money unless I know I've got the right details. My £5 appeared in my new online saver account, so I sent the rest of the ISA proceeds through. And promptly got caught up in my own bank's fraud software. Sigh ...

They phoned me. Banks tell us all the time not to give security details to unsolicited callers, so I refused to answer any questions. They gave me a reference number (and I realised by that, that they were probably legit, but still ... a bank will use any excuse to get out of their financial obligations, so I didn't budge).

That was yesterday. I called them today, on a number I knew, and had to spend 45 minutes giving security answers, telling them my transfer was legit, etc, etc, etc, ad infi-bleeding-nitum. I thought my head was going to explode. They refuse to use email. They refuse to use their own secure messaging system. They say their reasons for that, of course, but the important thing to me right now is their refusal. In the end, they offered to delete my phone number from their records - that means that the delay will actually be longer of course, as the first I'll know about it is (apart from watching the website) is a letter. I can live with that, for the sake of my blood pressure if nothing else.

In the past, their fraud software has frozen my account when I unexpectedly bought some nails from B&Q, total price £1.50. While payments to my builder of £3,000 went unremarked. The more cashless we get, the more the admin fallout is going to waste our time It's not a pretty picture, except that my head hopefully won't explode because the fraud software will be more accurate.

[grenfell]

You have my sympathies. Reading your post it seemed to me the problem lies with banks themselves rather than the medium they work with , be it cash , electronic , coloured beads or leaves if a system can be buggered up then I'd say it's odds on it will be.

[Arzosah]

Thanks grenfell! I agree, actually, if something can be embuggerated, the banks will embuggerate it - though if you have cash available to you, the banking problem won't mean you can't buy a cuppa tea etc, thats what I was thinking of (I was still in rant mode when I wrote yesterday ).

[grenfell]

, if something can be embuggerated, the banks will embuggerate it.

I like that , that's now a word I'll duly try to slip into conversation as often as possible . Where's the like button when you need it?

[jansman]

Here is an interesting development in the erosion of our freedom:

Visa considers incentives for UK firms to go cashless
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40604373

[Plymtom]

Visa has a strong vested interest and it's not in the article, more people will run up credit card debt and be enslaved to paying back at fairly high interest rates, if you haven't got a great deal of money, it's a trap many will fall into, they know this, they make billions worldwide as a result of it, we've discussed the issues of big brother knowing everything you do but I tell you for many this is a route to a sort of exploitation not seen since the slave trade!

Resist it at every turn is all I can say, one day we will wake up

[Jamesey1981]

Visa has a strong vested interest and it's not in the article, more people will run up credit card debt and be enslaved to paying back at fairly high interest rates, if you haven't got a great deal of money, it's a trap many will fall into, they know this, they make billions worldwide as a result of it, we've discussed the issues of big brother knowing everything you do but I tell you for many this is a route to a sort of exploitation not seen since the slave trade!

Resist it at every turn is all I can say, one day we will wake up

Visa don't make any money from charging interest, that's the credit providers, visa make money by processing payments for which they charge a percentage, so they do have a vested interest but not in the way you stated.
The retailers will mostly see through it to be honest, they're smart enough to know that visa will jack the fees up first chance they get, this is why a lot of places don't take Amex, the fees are higher for the retailers.

[Plymtom]

Visa don't make any money from charging interest, that's the credit providers, visa make money by processing payments for which they charge a percentage, so they do have a vested interest but not in the way you stated.

I stand corrected willing accomplices they are though, this is one of those things sold to us as a convenient advance and enhancement to our lives, but we will be abused by it for sure, and could be let down by it, it is a huge temptation of fate, we know the score back ups, what do we do if the power fails? We have had banks computer systems failing before and we will again, of all the potential SHTF scenarios a collapse of the financial system as we become over reliant on electronic payment is the most likely and we should fear it, preppers may ride it out, but the rest wouldn't and the longer it went on, the worse it would be.

[yorkshirewolf]

Visa has a strong vested interest and it's not in the article, more people will run up credit card debt and be enslaved to paying back at fairly high interest rates, if you haven't got a great deal of money, it's a trap many will fall into, they know this, they make billions worldwide as a result of it, we've discussed the issues of big brother knowing everything you do but I tell you for many this is a route to a sort of exploitation not seen since the slave trade!

Resist it at every turn is all I can say, one day we will wake up

I'm not sure, there's a huge difference between need and want. none of the credit companies are putting a gun to anyones head to buy, buy, buy. People spend of their own accord, wether to have the latest shiny trinkets, phones, toys, cars etc, to keep up with the Joneses, or just to try and buy happiness.

We live in a very unequal society, where we're told that in order to be happy we need the latest things, we need to look a certain way, we need to be successful, etc, so people will spend and get into debt by choice. But it's all b****cks, if you think independently and spend according to what you can afford - with a little emergency money aside, then there really shouldn't be too much need for people to be in debt.

I know that life can throw curve balls and jobs losses, redundancy, children, illness, injury etc can happen to us all, but i'll bet the vast majority of debt owed in this country was not spent on emergencies or something that was needed, but rather things that were wanted.

I've had so many conversations with people about debt, one of whom freely admitted she wanted an Audi to move up the social ladder! many more complain about having cars on PCP/finance, they complain about monthly payments, about the money they'll have paid in interest, and about how the car will be worth several thousand pounds less than what they've paid by the end of it, but they also admit (usually reluctantly) they they bought a shiny new car to keep up with mates/colleagues/neighbours.
It's stupid. why get in debt to impress someone else? but no credit companies put a gun to their head to do that!

I drive an old van which we've had for 8 years, it's not pretty, it has scratches and a few dings, but it runs, it works and it does the job i need it to.
Could i afford a new van? maybe, but it would be too much of a drain on my finances, would my neighbours be impressed if a got a brand new van? quite likely, but will having a brand new van improve my life? no. so i'll keep it until it dies or until i no longer need it.

People are more than capable of making a choice, and if they make a choice that leaves them in financial peril, that is absolutely their own fault, not the credit companies. Apologies for a bit of a rant, but the 'debt is not my fault' attitude drives me mad.

[jansman]

Points all taken on board there Yorkshire Wolf. I agree TOTALLY with your views on debt. However, the point made by my shared link is more about being forced into not being able to access shops with cash. Debit cards and credit cards. When I was a butchery retail manager, about 95% of the plastic we took was debit cards.

Many folks now use debit cards as I do cash. Fair enough. However, I like the choice of either. When 'Cash' becomes a dirty word, as it seems to be increasingly,and a nation shuns its own currency, it's a worry. I work in a cash industry,always have, but I can see it coming to an end. For the sake of convenience, people will be happy for The Man to watch their every purchase.