Wind and Hydro Generators

[jennyjj01]

A thought spurred by a recent post on hand cranked Generators...

Does any member here have a wind powered electricity generator. If not, can we discuss the pros and cons, because they may just be a viable alternative to solar for some of us.

I'd thought that the biggest drawback to Wind Generators was cost, but surprisingly there are some inexpensive ones. I was drawn to this 500W Wind Generator on amazon for just £175 or this one for £155. The claimed 500W is nonsense, but even at 150W, it would be on a par with a small solar installation and remember they'd run at night and in winter. The remaining drawback is just how much of a windy location would it need? Well, some of us live in remote places, which might be suitable?
I do recall B&Q went through a phase of trying to sell these sorts of things for thousands. Withdrawn in 2006 because they were not meeting the expectations of urban customers who were typically getting less than 10% of anticipated energy. https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... /windpower

If small domestic turbines are much worse value than domestic solar, then why would the same not be true for massive installations. I.e why is the country littered with big windmills but fewer big solar farms? Is it that Wind power works ok at larger scale. or is it because of subsidies?

Has anyone tried one? What about a portable one?
Is anyone game to take one for the team? Yorkshire Andy? JerseySpud? Highland or Island dwellers?

I put Hydro in the title for all you water mill dwellers

[tarmactatt]

Great topic, first thing that sprung to mind was the small ones on some boats moored up in a harbour, I guess for keeping the battery trickle charged over winter?

Most webpages give unrealistic peak output figures.

I found this page had monthly Ah numbers for data they recorded in 2016, total was 1629Ah.
https://www.thefitoutpontoon.co.uk/char ... -turbines/

I found this page quite interesting, fairly balanced and seems quite honest:
https://sweetruca.com/is-a-wind-generat ... -worth-it/

I do wonder if increasing the size of your solar array, and storage batteries would be a more efficient use of funds?

[jennyjj01]

Most webpages give unrealistic peak output figures.

I found this page had monthly Ah numbers for data they recorded in 2016, total was 1629Ah.
https://www.thefitoutpontoon.co.uk/char ... -turbines/

I found this page quite interesting, fairly balanced and seems quite honest:
https://sweetruca.com/is-a-wind-generat ... -worth-it/

I do wonder if increasing the size of your solar array, and storage batteries would be a more efficient use of funds?

Two good reviews, Thanks.
In that first one, they got 1629Ah in a year. If we are very generous and assume it's a 24V setup and that they were able to use the energy, that's 39kWh which at 35p would have been worth about £10 before any wastage.
But, it was also highly seasonal and inconsistent. They would have needed big batteries to capture the peak output. Bigger than they need for a more consistent solar system. At minimum, the windmill would have cost £150, plus maybe much more than £200 for batteries.... All for a tenner of energy!

No way that return on investment would be better than adding more solar. My cheap solar system is targeted to pay for itself in 4 years. That wind system would be hard to pay for itself in 40 years!

The second review mentioned that to get the most out of the boat mounted kit, they'd have to take the boat to unpleasantly windy locations. Also it cast shade on their solar array!

So, The evidence so far is that Wind generating should be way down the shopping list unless you can capture fast winds consistently AND that you can invest in enough BIG batteries or load management to make the energy usable.

Now. I do wonder if the cost issue is the same on HUGE windmills like the ones we see on some retail parks or littered around the country. Do those beggars ever really cost in, because we as a nation are buying them.

I'm out!

[Ahastyatom]

I came across a co -op that is doing community owned turbines today, their recent funding drive was for 32.5 million for a farm for 8 turbines and they say that they expect the average investor of approx £1700 would expect it to be paid back in 14 years at normal price but 5 if things stay high. So I guess the way things are going they are value for money but obviously you would need a back up for when the wind does not blow

https://blog.rippleenergy.com/environme ... ow-closed/

I don't have any investment or interest in this company, just heard about it on the BBC and was curious

[Nurseandy]

Hi jenny, I had a mate who lived off grid and installed a small turbine about ten years ago similar (at least superficially) to the you linked to. Tbh all he had was hassle with it, bearings going, non waterproof connections in the unit. Any maintenace was made doubly hard by the fact you had to unstep the mast to access it.
Could be he bought a cheap one and his problems couldve been avoided if he'd got a quality one or perhaps more recent ones are better? I could enquire about the make if you're interested?

[jennyjj01]

Hi jenny, I had a mate who lived off grid and installed a small turbine about ten years ago similar (at least superficially) to the you linked to. Tbh all he had was hassle with it, bearings going, non waterproof connections in the unit....
I could enquire about the make if you're interested?

Wear and tear is just one other big downside. If it's not going to last long enough to pay for itself (40 years?) then that just confirms it's a bad idea.

I came across a co -op that is doing community owned turbines today, their recent funding drive was for 32.5 million for a farm for 8 turbines and they say that they expect the average investor of approx £1700 would expect it to be paid back in 14 years at normal price but 5 if things stay high. So I guess the way things are going they are value for money but obviously you would need a back up for when the wind does not blow

https://blog.rippleenergy.com/environme ... ow-closed/

Again, how can big turbine projects cost in much better that small domestic ones? Even more, why doesn't the cooperative spend a smaller amount on a solar farm to achieve the same ends?
I suspect a con or at least a very risky investment, and those investors will never see a penny back as the few turbines to be built stand as a rusting monument to their broken dreams.
Some directors will make money.

[steptoe]

Hi looked at wind turbine as a guy local has it but most times it appear to be stopped , now my thinking is either he has to much power stored in the batteries or that the turbine is not much cop , as to maintinace if i did do one i would put it on a telescopic mast like for the ham radio masts you can get wind up masts and again that would be a bonus on slow days you could wizz it a bit higher to try and catch more wind .

I am still playing solar catch up really so wind is something i will look at after i find enough solar power but right now solar is my aim .

We are trying to fond a local company that can be trusted on the solar issue ie not just in it to sell you them most expensive set up , i am also trying to find a firm to fit a nice woodburner in the living room i know we are in a smokeless zone but i say bugger that i need to keep my wife warm so if it is a woodburner so be it , but6 madam has already said she wants to be able to put a kettle on it lol yup orders and we have looked at a fam to blow the warm air toward the stairway .

Now back to the wind turbines have you priced mush up jen ie from a company as i say the guy round the corner has a bigish one mounted on the end of the house but i also thought you had to have planning for it i might be wrong , i guess out in the sticks you could get away with it more

[jennyjj01]

Now back to the wind turbines have you priced mush up jen ie from a company as i say the guy round the corner has a bigish one mounted on the end of the house but i also thought you had to have planning for it i might be wrong , i guess out in the sticks you could get away with it more

Stand alone ones don't normally need permission. Mounting ON the house might not be OK.The prices that I did see were FAR too much per kWh and I could never seeing one cost in.

[grenfell]

Again, how can big turbine projects cost in much better that small domestic ones? Even more, why doesn't the cooperative spend a smaller amount on a solar farm to achieve the same ends?
I suspect a con or at least a very risky investment, and those investors will never see a penny back as the few turbines to be built stand as a rusting monument to their broken dreams.
Some directors will make money.

Lancaster university did a paper on this quite some time ago and looked at domestic and urban wind turbines. To be fair it was .more concerned with EROEI ( energy returned on energy invested) rather than in financial terms but there is an element of mirroring. They found that small urban turbines didn't produce or at best struggled to produce the energy used to manufacture and install them. One of the problems identified is that urban wind turbines are generally low to the ground in relative terms and within that 60ftish height there are houses , trees , telegraph poles and the like all of which serve to break up constant airflow. Big turbines are higher and often on hills and can take advantage of a more steady airflow. They will have a much higher EROEI than small domestic installations.

[jennyjj01]

Lancaster university did a paper on this quite some time ago and looked at domestic and urban wind turbines. To be fair it was .more concerned with EROEI ( energy returned on energy invested) rather than in financial terms but there is an element of mirroring. They found that small urban turbines didn't produce or at best struggled to produce the energy used to manufacture and install them. One of the problems identified is that urban wind turbines are generally low to the ground in relative terms and within that 60ftish height there are houses , trees , telegraph poles and the like all of which serve to break up constant airflow. Big turbines are higher and often on hills and can take advantage of a more steady airflow. They will have a much higher EROEI than small domestic installations.

Good point. Since the Energy used to create the turbine is only a fraction of the total cost,and they are negative EROEI anyway, then it's simple enough. Domestic wind turbines just won't cost in unless electricity prices soar much further.... Which we can't rule out.
Though many home rigs don't need planning permission, placement and height is restricted.