Questions about what folks think on the Comm's side of things

[m.marino]

Okay, As the Subject states a bit of a question.

What do folks think about communications and equipment to do that with? As with modern radios, 3D printing, and micro generation abilities, there is a lot that can be done on a budget and even more if folks pool resources or focus resources for better response and reliability.

A bit of my background, MM0MSU. Which for those who know what that is, I am a fully licensed UK amateur radio operator (pre-covid testing). I also design and build antennas (that is business). I also am a member of Lothians RAYNET and have been for a number of years. These days with the ability to 3D print and build durable micro-gen wind generators that can supply power for QRP (low power) communications and the ease to build antennas that can amplify the effective wattage that you are transmitting (at the expense of a narrower effective beam). I am wondering IF folks have though about setting up what is wifi repeaters and completely legal within a rather useful wattage output.

I don't know the response I will get but just putting it out there to see.

[jennyjj01]

This is way outside of my knowledge. Heck, i don't even understand the question. So I'll ask one...

What could reasonably done with WiFi repeaters? Is that like Wifi extenders? Aren't there serious limits to how many can be linked together?

As I understand it, they might be used to join closely located computers together and share any available internet.

Real world practical application in a bad comms post crisis world???

Is this all separate from use of amateur radio licensed bands, which I thought can't be used for data??

[Peter]

In a real SHTF situation the web would be one the first things to go so no WiFi, what is on your device is all you’ve
got, so any info you think you need download now, and keep a backup, incase of an EMP attack wiping out electronic
storage you need paper copies of as much as you can, especially important family records, home insurances etc.
and of course any survival information.

When you say comms we will probably just have radio, so I think first of all a shortwave capable radio for national
and possible international news (and of course a spare), a couple of baofeng UV-5R dual band radios for medium
range use.

A pair of cheap low power walkie talkies would be useful for very local use ie. when foraging/scavenging,
(low power short range, so less chance of anyone listening in.

Several sets of rechargeable batteries (no good without them) and then some solar panels to charge them,
more efficient than a small wind generator, unless you can a descent size one and get it high up, (my opinion).

[jennyjj01]

In a real SHTF situation the web would be one the first things to go so no WiFi, what is on your device is all you’ve
got, so any info you think you need download now, and keep a backup, incase of an EMP attack wiping out electronic
storage you need paper copies of as much as you can, especially important family records, home insurances etc.
and of course any survival information.

When you say comms we will probably just have radio, so I think first of all a shortwave capable radio for national
and possible international news (and of course a spare), a couple of baofeng UV-5R dual band radios for medium
range use.

A pair of cheap low power walkie talkies would be useful for very local use ie. when foraging/scavenging,
(low power short range, so less chance of anyone listening in.

Several sets of rechargeable batteries (no good without them) and then some solar panels to charge them,
more efficient than a small wind generator, unless you can a descent size one and get it high up, (my opinion).

I was thinking with WiFi, a small group of houses, eg a cul-de sac COULD link together pcs even without any internet to the wider world, for house to house comms and CCTV. I remember dial up days, so dial up over phone networks might give a fallback?

Short of nuclear and EMP, in a non-nuclear war disaster, we can look for parallels with hurricane and war torn states and countries. Sporadic internet still seems resilient, but not for frivolous use.

Assume all comms would be monitored by somebody or something, even maybe by AI or alexa working for the state or skynet.

Definitely a couple of baofengs. I have mine programmed up with PTT frequencies. We can turn the power up and down, i think.
Cheap PTTS are rubbish and I would not entertain them.

[jansman]

If it’s neighbours getting together in a cul de sac,then just leaning over fences or going to the door is as technical as is needed. Before about 1995 when the mobile phone started,that’s how we used to do it!

It’s not very technical,this ‘talking’.

[Yorkshire Andy]

If it’s neighbours getting together in a cul de sac,then just leaning over fences or going to the door is as technical as is needed. Before about 1995 when the mobile phone started,that’s how we used to do it!

It’s not very technical,this ‘talking’.

Pre 1995 this was neighbour hood watch / street security

images (3).jpeg (3.77 KiB) Viewed 1382 times

For some reason a older woman having a go at a bunch of delinquent teenagers seemed to do the trick usually added threat I know your mother

[jansman]

[diamond lil]

There were radio hams long before there was internet... great hobby. My dad was one but it was wayy before I was old enough to know or care. I fancied trying it for a while but what put me off was that they were all men, no women that I knew of. Probably different now. Are you following the guy on Rockall m,marino? Trying to break the record for a lone stay, to raise money for Forces charities. There's a group on fb posting about it.

[m.marino]

This is way outside of my knowledge. Heck, i don't even understand the question. So I'll ask one...

What could reasonably done with WiFi repeaters? Is that like Wifi extenders? Aren't there serious limits to how many can be linked together?

As I understand it, they might be used to join closely located computers together and share any available internet.

Real world practical application in a bad comms post crisis world???

Is this all separate from use of amateur radio licensed bands, which I thought can't be used for data??

Okay Jenny,

Modern "wifi" comes in various "flavors" which are frequencies. That range from 900 Mhz up to 10Ghz. The common ones used are 2.4 and 5.8Ghz as they offer large amount of data over a reasonable range for not a huge amount of power output needed. The can range from omni directional A 360 circle that allows any other device to connect that knows it is there and can properly connect to very narrow bean devices that require very accurate set up to be able to receive and send data. The give and take of those different antennas is that they do or don't amplify the amount of wattage (power) that you are functionally putting out over the amount you are actually putting in. The reason that this is useful is that modern 5.8Ghz antennas can be built that reach over 5 miles and can keep a data stream that will allow 15-30 frames/sec video transmission let alone data.

These systems can be run on as little as 0.5 Watts of power, though most run on 3 to 5 watts. They can be set up to be self grounding so that the charging equipment attached to the batteries don't over charge. Which interestingly enough also make them immune to all but directed EMP attack (Which EMP attack in and of itself is way over blown and used to not keep the grid working as it should be).

These can be set up in a MESH and from there you have a communication grid that can be made to be self healing (reroutes if a node goes down and reasonably self sustaining. Combine that with a bit of vertical wind power generation and a bit of solar and you have a system that can sit in place and reach a fair distance. The biggest is that it is line of site which means finding height or a clear line of direction with which to be able to communicate.

This used to be done on large scale in the US and Canada with massive microwave antenna's that were putting out insane amounts of power and covering distances that required towers for the mast as they were transmitting over 50 to 60 miles at a stretch.

To those saying talk local, yeah radio does that and does it well. This just adds a bit more distance and also adds networking back into the mix for getting larger amounts of data from point A to Point B. RAYNET in the UK has been building MESH nets to aid in resiliency planning for years and I know of many colleges and Uni's who have an entire sub-internet that covers square miles a of a town and uses very little power. Which is what the main goal is. sustainable digital communication that doesn't require a huge amount of power but will act as a back up to either an increase in the brown/black outs in the UK. Or if need an alternate comm's system IF the PTB's start restricting who has the privilege of using the internet and when.

Hopefully that clarified things a bit better.

[jennyjj01]

Thanks.
I have enough knowledge to pass UK foundation, so I understood enough. I just wonder if there is the expertise in the community and the inclination to build data networks where there isn't access to t'internet. I struggle to see the deal making application for this to us preppers? Maybe the sort of thing that would be helpful in a civil defense or 'resistance' role?
I'm well aware that gardenfence-net and sneaker-net is best for the cul-de-sac. I wondered who'd say that first.

Like yourself, I doubt the effective damage from EMP. I don't hide my torch in a faraday cage. And I agree that narrow beam comms could be pretty immune