What tradeable goods do you have stashed, or plan to?

[grenfell]

Bartering happens in war zones.

To me, trying to swap bread for gold sounds like a good way to get killed.

It certainly breeds a lot of animosity but there are numerous historical precedents
It also can't be ignored that money will still be in use , not everyone is suddenly going to start swopping beans for tools or bread for earrings . We see that in current war zones , inflated prices certainly but currency is still in use. Funnily enough on another forum I've been reading about Czechoslovakia just after the end of the second world war where German issued protectorate money continued in use for several months. Essentially worthless but used until the Czechs got a hold of the situation.

Money is useful, but more so in the short term.

Currency starts to become less useful over time compared to critical tradeable goods, for a number of reasons.

1. Inflation.
2. Physical degradation of bank notes over months/years.
3. High fees for converting digital money to cash.
4. High immediate survivabilty value of goods. When you are hungry, and food is scarce, a loaf of bread is likely more use to you that a £10 note in your pocket. £10 is ok if there is food on sale.

This transition takes place gradually over time.

To be fair those reasons apply to barter as well to one degree or another , the article GB posted makes that quite clear. There is also the problem offinding someone who has what you want and them being willing to take what you have. That can lead to having to do a number of transaction. For example let's imagine you want boots and have potatoes to trade but the person who has boots wants petrol. Perhaps someone else has petrol but wants onions.Then you find someone with onions who wants potatoes .. The article also touches on what I would call "the prepper fantasy" where the world goes to hell in a handcart but preppers will be fine just because..
I see the article also mentions bartering cigarettes and there are numerous examples of them becoming defacto currency. Question to those like myself who doesn't smoke would it make sense to store them just for bartering. I more than likely won't but it is a consideration , do you store stuff that can be traded but if kept would be useable or do you store stuff whose primary use would be trade?
Just as a sort of straw poll but does anyone on here use barter now rather than just looking at it as a potential tool? I've mentioned I have done on an occasional basis but not regularly. I asked this question on another forum , a more building based one , and the responses weren't really positive , nearly all didn't and most wouldn't even consider it. There were of course some comments about tax evasion as there's no paper trail or money changing hands despite bartered goods should legally be declared.

[GillyBee]

I have a friend who runs a small business who regularly trades an hour of his skill with another "friend" with a different skill he can use. I am not sure it is very easy for HMRC to differentiate between trading and "just helping a friend out" if the only thing being traded is your skill and time.

[Frnc]

It certainly breeds a lot of animosity but there are numerous historical precedents
It also can't be ignored that money will still be in use , not everyone is suddenly going to start swopping beans for tools or bread for earrings . We see that in current war zones , inflated prices certainly but currency is still in use. Funnily enough on another forum I've been reading about Czechoslovakia just after the end of the second world war where German issued protectorate money continued in use for several months. Essentially worthless but used until the Czechs got a hold of the situation.

Money is useful, but more so in the short term.

Currency starts to become less useful over time compared to critical tradeable goods, for a number of reasons.

1. Inflation.
2. Physical degradation of bank notes over months/years.
3. High fees for converting digital money to cash.
4. High immediate survivabilty value of goods. When you are hungry, and food is scarce, a loaf of bread is likely more use to you that a £10 note in your pocket. £10 is ok if there is food on sale.

This transition takes place gradually over time.

To be fair those reasons apply to barter as well to one degree or another , the article GB posted makes that quite clear. There is also the problem offinding someone who has what you want and them being willing to take what you have. That can lead to having to do a number of transaction. For example let's imagine you want boots and have potatoes to trade but the person who has boots wants petrol. Perhaps someone else has petrol but wants onions.Then you find someone with onions who wants potatoes .. The article also touches on what I would call "the prepper fantasy" where the world goes to hell in a handcart but preppers will be fine just because..
I see the article also mentions bartering cigarettes and there are numerous examples of them becoming defacto currency. Question to those like myself who doesn't smoke would it make sense to store them just for bartering. I more than likely won't but it is a consideration , do you store stuff that can be traded but if kept would be useable or do you store stuff whose primary use would be trade?
Just as a sort of straw poll but does anyone on here use barter now rather than just looking at it as a potential tool? I've mentioned I have done on an occasional basis but not regularly. I asked this question on another forum , a more building based one , and the responses weren't really positive , nearly all didn't and most wouldn't even consider it. There were of course some comments about tax evasion as there's no paper trail or money changing hands despite bartered goods should legally be declared.

The article says people turned to barter in a matter of weeks.

It also talks about using skills as trade, something I hadn't really thought about much. I will gen up more on using wild plants for food and medicine.

Your question about boots and beans is answered by the cigarettes. You sell your boots for cigarettes (or some other tradeable 'currency'), and buy beans with cigarettes.

[grenfell]

I have a friend who runs a small business who regularly trades an hour of his skill with another "friend" with a different skill he can use. I am not sure it is very easy for HMRC to differentiate between trading and "just helping a friend out" if the only thing being traded is your skill and time.

Strictly speaking all transactions should be declared. If barter was exempt it would be a huge loophole in the tax system that would be exploited to the full. In practice I tend to get the impression that on a small scale they don't try to bother as it's far too much hassle and I doubt most people even bother to declare it anyway. I would imagine when "swopping" an hour it would be worked out by looking at a person's hourly rate...

[grenfell]

Money is useful, but more so in the short term.

Currency starts to become less useful over time compared to critical tradeable goods, for a number of reasons.

1. Inflation.
2. Physical degradation of bank notes over months/years.
3. High fees for converting digital money to cash.
4. High immediate survivabilty value of goods. When you are hungry, and food is scarce, a loaf of bread is likely more use to you that a £10 note in your pocket. £10 is ok if there is food on sale.

This transition takes place gradually over time.

To be fair those reasons apply to barter as well to one degree or another , the article GB posted makes that quite clear. There is also the problem offinding someone who has what you want and them being willing to take what you have. That can lead to having to do a number of transaction. For example let's imagine you want boots and have potatoes to trade but the person who has boots wants petrol. Perhaps someone else has petrol but wants onions.Then you find someone with onions who wants potatoes .. The article also touches on what I would call "the prepper fantasy" where the world goes to hell in a handcart but preppers will be fine just because..
I see the article also mentions bartering cigarettes and there are numerous examples of them becoming defacto currency. Question to those like myself who doesn't smoke would it make sense to store them just for bartering. I more than likely won't but it is a consideration , do you store stuff that can be traded but if kept would be useable or do you store stuff whose primary use would be trade?
Just as a sort of straw poll but does anyone on here use barter now rather than just looking at it as a potential tool? I've mentioned I have done on an occasional basis but not regularly. I asked this question on another forum , a more building based one , and the responses weren't really positive , nearly all didn't and most wouldn't even consider it. There were of course some comments about tax evasion as there's no paper trail or money changing hands despite bartered goods should legally be declared.

The article says people turned to barter in a matter of weeks.

It also talks about using skills as trade, something I hadn't really thought about much. I will gen up more on using wild plants for food and medicine.

Your question about boots and beans is answered by the cigarettes. You sell your boots for cigarettes (or some other tradeable 'currency'), and buy beans with cigarettes.

I already answered my question about boots . Trade what you have with one person then trade that with someone else , the commodity can be anything , boots , cigarettes , petrol or potatoes.
The idea of trading skills is probably more akin to normal life , it's just being paid in a commodity rather than pound notes.
I'm not against barter at all but don't take a rosy tinted view of it either , the article does say people turn to barter in a matter of weeks but people turn back to using money very readily, it's much less clunky and so much more convenient.

[Frnc]

but people turn back to using money very readily, it's much less clunky and so much more convenient.

Where did you get this from? I can't see it anywhere in the article.

It says:
"Some of them were smart enough to realize that money was gonna become worthless really soon, and even gold and jewelry were only good in the first period, and then only if you had a connection to outside world to exchange it for something useful."

[grenfell]

It's not in the article , it's more a historical fact. There isn't a society that was forced to turn to barter that then didn't go back to monetary transactions.
The whole question is badly framed in my opinion. In the article the author is effectively cut off from the outside world in which case there's very little choice but it can be different in other situations. Take the Ukraine or gaza , war zones that haven't descended into just a barter economy.

[Frnc]

It's not in the article , it's more a historical fact. There isn't a society that was forced to turn to barter that then didn't go back to monetary transactions.
The whole question is badly framed in my opinion. In the article the author is effectively cut off from the outside world in which case there's very little choice but it can be different in other situations. Take the Ukraine or gaza , war zones that haven't descended into just a barter economy.

Yes it's different in different situations. And we don't know what kind of SHTF we might face. I'm not saying barter would definitely be the main way to buy things, I'm saying it could be.

For example after hurricane Katrina, people were bartering essentials such as batteries, water, food and medical supplies. Yes, it is often only temporary. Obviously if the disaster is over, people will go back to currency. Happend after the Haiti earthquake as well.

Another example where barter is used is when there is hyperinflation, eg Agentina in 1998-2002. People are bartering in Venezuela due to economic collapse. Zimbabwe in 2000s another example. It was common in the post-USSR economic collapse. Also the Greek debt crisis.

War or occupation is another time, and we already heard about Yugoslavia. It is happening in Gaza. You can use cash, but essentials cost a fortune. And to change digital money to cash, you pay a high premium. Also, the bank notes are getting worn out. Barter was common Europe in WW2.

In long duration shtf scenarios, over time, barter can give way to alternative currencies (Argentina, Greece), skill-based economies, or localized trade systems. Localised trade can include barter, alternative currencies, commodities as currency, localised currencies (community scrip).

[grenfell]

Which to a large degree makes trading time and skills probably one of the better preps. It can't be stolen ( unless slavery makes a comeback) and can be used in the here and now. Without knowing just how a situation might play out storing an actual commodity is largely guesswork. There's also time to factor in. I tend to lean more towards a slow(ish) crash rather than something that happens overnight and if I were to store things primarily with the idea of trade then some could be spoiled before I get the chance.

[Adjee]

does anyone on here use barter now rather than just looking at it as a potential tool?

Yes, we do on a regular basis. A few examples:

We exchanged goats for lambs and pigs.

Recently exchanged breeding geese for our winter hay.

We pay our car mechanic with meat and eggs according to the maintenance our car requires and for him getting it through its preglet (similar to UK MOT).

I have mentioned before that for all the rabbits sold (live or dead weight) we take payment in feed so we do not have to purchase supplementary pellets during the winter months.

Bartering/exchanging is part and parcel of rural living in Eastern Europe where many of the older generation have little or no income but they still have the land and skills to produce and maintain most things they need to survive. They are a dying breed and a lot of knowledge is being lost with them.