Firearms license

[Technik]

Are shotguns expensive? I know that it's like with everything - you can get a cheap "plastic" one or a gold masterpiece but how much roughly is a decent all round shotgun?

I always wanted to try clay shooting so maybe now is the time.

[TomW]

Being a man of limited means, I have never paid much for a shot gun. My first cost 200 but was well maintained and perfectly functional, by the time I sold it its value had decreased further and there is a similar one up for 120 atm. My recommendation would be a gun you can afford, but try and get an ejector model. It can be a pain taking the fired cartridges out after for clays most would choose an over and under but if you prefer a side by side then go for it.

[modplod]

Agreed - an expensive gun doesn't do anything more that a cheaper budget gun can't do. I guarantee that if you look after a budget gun it will probably last as long as an expensive one.

I use a simple durable well made AYA Yeoman side-by-side 12g shotgun. Anyone with a degree of knowldege about shotgun's will instantly know just how good AYA shotgun's are in terms of value for money and quality of build. It's still possible to find mint condition AYA's for less than £250 which is outstanding value compared to some of the better known (so called top shelf) makes. My AYA Yeoman will last a lifetime because it's built well using top quality materials.

Old AYA's are quite sought after guns, if you go online you will see that shops tend to snap them up because they can be obtained cheaply and sold off with a healthy mark up (profit). It's getting very hard to find one in a private deal.

My top buy - AYA Yeoman. Aim to buy at £200 or less. The other models are all good buys too (Models 3, 4 etc...).

My dad brought my AYA in the 1970's and he finally handed it to me in 1985. It's probably only worth £200 but I will never get rid of it.

The AYA make is Spanish and most gamekeepers have at least one in their armoury.

If you want a good budget (value for money) buy then stay well clear of the likes of Browning, Berreta, Bennelli etc... These are indeed great guns BUT they are expensive compared to others with almost the same build quality and engineering.

Instead have a look at the lesser known makes such as Lincoln, Bettinsoli, Huglu (Turkish) ect.. If you want a new gun then plan for spending no more than £700 for a good budget buy. Personally I prefer buying secondhand mint condition guns for a fraction of their new price.

Russian made Baikal shotguns are awsome beasts and represent an outstanding buy in terms of value for money. Their barrels are absolutely superbly made and you won't find a more durable gun than one of these. Some people laugh at people using these things but I have seen the smile wiped off their faces when the Baikal owners (wearing cheap DPM British Army Camo gear) go home with a larger bag....

A side-by-side is always going to be cheaper than a more modern design over-and-under gun. One doesn't do anything the other can't do although some people have a preference. I prefer side by sides for their sheer simplicity.

I'm afraid that if I buy secondhand I always want a true bargain - for me that means a mint condition gun for less than half the new price. Make sure you haggle hard because some people are not realistic with the price they demand.

It's perfectly possible to obtain a superb shotgun in mint condition for less than £350.

Obviously you are going to get a better deal with private buys (not from a retail outlet that needs to make a healthy profit on things they acquire and then sell).

For those looking at purchasing rimfire rifles (.17HMR, .22LR, .22WMR) the possibilities are even greater in terms of bargains out there - it's perfectly possible to find mint condition firearms for £100 or less! Try to look for a CZ Model 452 bolt-action rifle or something similar.

My top tip - look here on guntrader - http://www.guntrader.co.uk/

I wear an expensive watch (£1,500 Omega Seamaster), but it doesn't really do anything better than a cheap £25 ticka ticka Timex.... I rest my case.

Good hunting.

[JohnRio]

"For a .243 or .270: To cull deer on the country estate I own."

There's no way that one would work - the police know all their area landowners and go golfing or to the masons with them - and for that kind of gun, you need to be well known locally with excellent refs (and preferably roots going back 3 generations locally)!

Err, I wasn't being sarcastic with that, nor suggesting that anyone lie about such a thing to the cops.
Not at all.

The point was - if you did own land with deer, or had written permission to hunt on such, that would be a legit, specific reason for a .243 or .270 rifle variation on a FAC in the UK, and nothing more vague will do. That's how tight the regulations are!

[JohnRio]

Are shotguns expensive? I know that it's like with everything - you can get a cheap "plastic" one or a gold masterpiece but how much roughly is a decent all round shotgun?

I always wanted to try clay shooting so maybe now is the time.

Baikal (Russian) make some reasonably priced, sturdy, break-open single and double barrel shotguns that have a decent reputation from the reviews I've read.

Your gun safe will probably cost you more!

[JohnRio]

From: http://psa.bizhosting.com/whats_new.html

"2/12/11 - Another proposed rise in certificate fees!
A paper hase been put to the Home Office by the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) Asking for a phased increase in fees for firearm & shotgun certificates.

The FULL cost recovery they want is :
FAC Grant - £189
SGC Grant - £189
FAC renewal - £106
SGC renewal - £106
Variation to FAc - £96


BUT they want the rise phased over five years -in the first year, they want the fees to rise as follows:
FAC Grant - £93.80
SGC grant - 93.80
FAC renewal - £66
SGC renewal - £66

We assume there will be a similar rise every year for five years until the £189 grant figure is attained - BUT then they want the costs to be tied to rises in police pay.
They are also asking for fees for things that currently we don't pay for, like changing your address on your certificate, European Firearms Passes, etc.

Probably the worst charge they want to impose is £19 for a temporary certificate. Now that may not sound at all important, but then you have to look at when these permits (called "section 7 permits") are issued: They are issued to the widow or widower of a certificate holder who has died so that he or she can possess, then sell or transfer the deceased's guns; very nice of the police to demand a fee in these circumstances.

That may be bad enough, but the other time a section 7 permit is issued is when someone has applied for the renewal of their certificate and the police haven't been able to renew it in time. They surely cannot be asking us to pay for their inefficiency? Are they so insensitive that they haven't thought of this?

The paper does admit that the current system has "existing inefficiencies" (don't you love the great British talent for understatement?) and therefore goes on to offer suggestions to improve it.


So what are these improvements?

Online grant or renewal forms
Automatic calculation of fees online
Automatic checking of intelligence data
A form of tracking so that we can "see" how our applications are progressing
The ability to transfer an application from a firearms enquiry office on leave or off sick to another
Certificates sent electronically
electronic communications from firearm enquiry officer to their office

Soon, it may be time to write to your MP..... "

[Technik]

Thanks for the info guys. I may look into that then. I know it's funny but it appears that you can get a shotgun for the same price you can get a bow.

[ryanscally]

Hey guys, sorry for not replying I've been away. All the information that has been brilliant, so yeah thanks for that. If you want to aswell ring your county polce number and ash to be transferred to firearms division and they should add you some documents out to you for free.

[the-gnole]

"For a .243 or .270: To cull deer on the country estate I own."

There's no way that one would work - the police know all their area landowners and go golfing or to the masons with them - and for that kind of gun, you need to be well known locally with excellent refs (and preferably roots going back 3 generations locally)!

Err, I wasn't being sarcastic with that, nor suggesting that anyone lie about such a thing to the cops.
Not at all.

The point was - if you did own land with deer, or had written permission to hunt on such, that would be a legit, specific reason for a .243 or .270 rifle variation on a FAC in the UK, and nothing more vague will do. That's how tight the regulations are!

In some parts of the UK they are trying/hoping to introduce licensing for everyday type Air rifles, could be interesting to see how it unfolds, after all making it illegal to have one without a license will prove interesting to police.

[tfish]

I know someone who did years in jail for very serious assault while a member of a famous motorcycle club whos just got his license through.

The police were fully aware of his crime and spoke to him about it.

Its a myth once you commint a crime you cant get a license it seems!

I am gobsmacked.