Retail outlets in a SHTF situation opinions..

[Accidentman]

TwoDo.

No need to apologise, I was a little blunt myself, and thanks for your reply, you covered a lot of points we agree on.

We do however disagree on some points, and I think that is good.

When the shtf I hope we both have a ham radio to keep in touch.

Ham radio, dam it, some thing else to put on the list !!

This is a good preppers site, with lots of good people on it with lots of different ideas.

That is a good thing.

Thanks for reminding me of that

But I still live in a flat that is so small I even feed my cats on the windowsill in winter !!

[Arzosah]

I really like the idea in the original post, Accidentman, of taking over a big hypermarket somewhere - but I also think Two Do's was realistic rather than negative. In fact, I've cut and pasted it tho I don't agree that people don't even have 3 days of food - after all, most people do a weekly shop ...

Accidentman, its great that you put this idea up there - you're sort of putting forward the idea of a local (or maybe regional) BOL, which I think is a brilliant long term goal for this site.

[Juvecu]

I'd suggest that you solve the issue of the flat first. I know it is much easier said than done and that I don't know your circumstances. You have already identified that the lack of storage space and the fact that it's a flat as the reason you would bug out. If you could perhaps change the situation by living in a house instead then you could bug in (at least in the start.) I'm just putting the idea out there to chew on.

I like the idea of a shared BOL, but I would need to trust the group I go with and I'm not a very trusting person. I'd say that's probably a trait shared by most on here. I would not pick a B&Q though, I think any BOL should have a reliable water source and food or a means to grow/raise it. I don't have a good alternative suggestion for such a place though. Knowing where the B&Q is so you could raid it for tools and such that you don't have the money to buy or the space to store would be a very good idea.

Ask yourself what you would do if someone else had the same idea. If you arrived at the B&Q and there is a group of 50 people already inside and defending it, what is plan B then? Hope for the best, but plan & prepare for the worst

[junmist]

Hi accidentman I quite like the idea of retail outlets like b&q no lower window for the zombies to get in either so I will now be going shopping and looking at the buildings in a diffrent light.
As for your flat look at diffrent places to store things if you have a sofa think of storeing under the seating area the gaps around a bath are good places some doors are hollow and you can put things in them. You tube is a good place to look for storage idears just think outside the box not in it.
Does your building have a flat roof if it does can you talk to your landlord and see if he will let you grow crops in boxes on it, you can grow veg on windowseals as well(sorry cats) ask around and see if you can find a garden that you can use in return for the owner getting some fruit and veg become an urban gorilla and go out at night and plant veg in strange places hope this helps to give you some idears

[TwoDo]

But I still live in a flat that is so small I even feed my cats on the windowsill in winter !!

Yes, lack of space is an issue - however, we all have to play the hand we are dealt - and so you are just going to have to get innovative. Here are a few ideas

1) Utilize external storage and distribute your preps. For example, put together a suitcase of freeze dried food, lock it and leave it with a relative - this could sit in someones attic (that stuff is good for 25 years) and be retrieved to form iron rations post SHTF. Perhaps go to the countryside and bury food caches.

2) Learn skills that will provide you with food - foraging is a good idea. For example, now is mushroom season - get a book and go and learn which ones are edible, pick them and eat them so you know it by heart. Make a family day out of it - children absolutely love running round the forest looking for things. Perhaps get a book on edible weeds and get that skill. Learn to hunt. I know that there are members of this forum who practice a great deal with slingshots so they can down small game.

3) Get on the list to get an allotment and/or try to get a veggie garden somewhere using some garden sharing scheme. IMHO allotments probably won't be too much use post serious SHTF as they will be the first things raided if people get hungry, nevertheless the skills will come in useful sooner or later.

4) Develop secret gardens, or guerrilla gardens - as a kick start here are a couple of threads I was involved with which touched on the issue

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4451&p=50013#p50013

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3150&p=34433&hilit ... den#p34433

5) google up "apartment prepper" or similar topic for useful ideas. I suggest the word "Apartment" rather than "Flat" because there are rather more discussions about this amongst the North American prepper contingent.

Ultimately, a distributed network of preps and the skills to acquire food from diverse sources could leave you and your family in a better position post SHTF than most.

[BigMacKin]

IMHO, coming together in any size group of random people in a post SHTF situation would most likely be a mistake. As has been already said their would be no tribal loyalty whatsoever and people who are under pressure then put under even further pressure would be (again IMHO) incredibly un-stable and definately not a group I would want to consider as loyal or dependable in such a scenario. My own plan would be to stay small, very small and out of site as much as possible. I'm not suggesting that my family and I would remain alone for ever - once the dust settled and I had made observations of other people/groups we may well risk contact but my guard would never drop. It is in our nature to destroy ourselves and when people become desperate all options will be on the table.

I believe that if I remained hidden, hunted and foraged for food, stole what I could not grow or make then we would have a chance. It is a sad indictement of the human race but if it was TEOTWAWKI and serious SHTF it would be a case of everyone for themselves. Hopefully we might learn from whatever put us in that situation and in time we may become better at living with and tolerating each other but until that time I'd be looking out for my family and I and would do whatever was needed for us to survive.

We have a smallish house and limited space for storage but my recommedation for prepping for the kind of SHTF scenario you discussed is find space for enough food and water for the first few weeks, make it small and mobile in case you have to move. Learn to hunt, trap and forage as this will be your avenue for food after your stores run out. Appreciate the seriousness of the situations you could find yourself in and prepare your mind for what you may have to do. I personally remind myself everyday that no-one is going to help me when their own survival depends on helping themselves. Finding this site has helped me to understand that it is my mind I must first prepare. Once that had happened (to the stage I am just now) I was able to better see how to prep.

[chillihound]

where to go ? its a complex question, i havnt worked out the perfect plan or place yet ,but i think it will all become obvious when the shtf.

the problem is that when the SHTF we don't exactly know what the situation will be. we all prepare for certain things but in the end are we really prepared for any event? for me if i lost my home or my job times would be hard but i could easily stay with relative and life would go on. if the power went out for a few days, its all good. electricity is bad for the soul anyway lol all my thoughts have gone into a situation where there is no structure to society anymore. if there was a global pandemic that kills millions or currency becomes a fairytale. tbh i have no idea what the world will be like. i don't know if i would stay put or run for the hills. i don't think anybody has a foolproof plan for any situation. but i do know that when the time comes i will have every idea of what im doing and how i'm going to keep on living. but as i would be trying to keep my family and close friends alive, forming a larger group would be on my list. but finding a place to fortify and sustain a living would always be my main objective, but can only be done when you have the means to do so.

[Moony]

50 would probably be considered too many to make a good group. 12-20 is an ideal group size (with mix of age/gender, obviously fit+healthier is better, but an unfit and skilled OAP is better than a young layabout who's never done anything for themselves in their life).

Solo - you are in deep trouble. You might think you are the new Rambo and have great skills and supplies for over a year, but you are too vulnerable, it is impossible to protect yourself (you can't be awake 24 hrs a day) and if you suffer even minor injury or illness you will be in deep, deep trouble.
Group < 12 recruit more people. small groups are still very vulnerable and will lack a sufficient skill-range for anything beyond basic survival.
Group > 20 depending on how you are housed, you'll be getting sanitation problems, arguements and have leadership / control issues, best to split the group and start again with 2 allied groups.

As for B+Q, interesting idea, but I'd suggest continuing to look around all houses + businesses nearby and I'll bet you can find something more practical.

[TomW]

Sound idea in principle but there is a few flaws as has been pointed out. Ultimately though I prepare so I dont have to try and pull something like this off. However, going it alone is in no way practical except in the first few days of a full blown shtf for many practical reasons as well as the simple fact we are social animals and need interaction just to stay sane.

Don't be discouraged though, you will develop a plan that's workable in time

[bulldogeagle]

the simple fact we are social animals and need interaction just to stay sane.

not all of us are! (social animals i mean)