weapons - guidance please?

[Plymtom]

Thanks for the advice BigDan and ...

join your local clay pigeon club, they are very friendly and helpful and moreover, cheaper than you think.

Speaking as one with a genuine interest in sporting shooting of all kinds and archery, not to mention being a collector of all kinds of sharp and often pointy things (bearing in mind and totally agreeing with your

You cannot defend yourself properly against a knife, and if you have one around the house for self defence then be prepered to have it turned against you

statement) I do only have those as tools for camping/survival purposes, and am painfully aware that I am probably as much use as a chocolate teapot if it came to defending myself with one.

I actually do like the idea of owning all manner of firearms and recently found out that club membership of a local .22 range would cost £150 per person per year a jacket is another £100 a glove £25 and a sling £30, ammo is £5 for 50 rounds which all must be kept at the club, where initially I would be loaning a rilfe, needless to say that is out of my price range probably being taken far too seriously ( in terms of competative shooting with other clubs) for someone who wants to enjoy the experience of target shooting I am thinking air rifle in the back garden is still the prefered option.

I am digressing slightly form my point and question just how much is cheaper than I think? My kids say that about their xmas pressies, so an example would be greatly appreciated, simularly does anyone know how to go about researching local farms needing/willing to have shooting enthusiasts come and help with vermin control?
Also keep those exapmles of how much these things cost to do comming for clay pigeon, target shooting , archery, air gun clubs, anything like that, in real money terms would be great for all to get an idea of a direction to go in.

There's a matter of reasonable self defence here and now, for an intruder for most of us is a SHTF scenario, for which we must if we want to call ourselves preppers, be prepared for, I do it by having a bloody good burglar alarm, which warms me of inturders ( just internal alarms loud enough for them to hear and all the lighting in an out comming on) a Rottie then me with whatever is to hand, thus far nothing as from the panel I can see where the attack originates,
and if I pick up a torch it's to see where they are fleeing to, so it's fair to say for now I am prepared and have back up intruder detection for prolonged power outages too.

Like you say though it is a lot different to a multiple attacker /shtf scenario, which in my inner city terraced house a shotgun could be a good deterent but in truth little more use against multiple attackers in a full on SHTF scenario unless we're talking zombies of course, then I may last a few minutes longer I still want a shotgun though but have to be realistic about it for the here and now, for use as a tool and for pleasure is very much dependent on the difference between the facts and my idea of affordable so I'll throw a figure at you would £200 a year for the hobby after set up costs Gun/Safe/License/other accesories of £400-£800 depending on luck with bargains?

[JamesMR]

theres a big big wake up call coming to some of those posters who think that a mag light torch is going to save them !! having tools around the house that might be pressed into service if a lone assailant is in the house, is a lot different to a multiple attacker /shtf scenario. how many people have actually been assaulted by a desparate/drugged/ drunk or angry person?.. not many on here id guess.
a bat lying about the house will give you peace of mind but use it at your peril !!! im not coming from a legal standpoint as it would be legal ,but from a ,..you will have to incapacitate them with the first blow view.
its also a RIGHT to own a shotgun in England without having a NEED. if pressed by your local fire arms liason officer then you may have to just state you would like to shoot clay pigeon. you do not need to be a member of a shotgun club to own one..
Firearms are a bit different, but every prepper should have a shotgun, they are NOT WEAPONS they are just tools , just like a knife. i have been stasbbed 24 times in two different incidents, luckily i was wearing body armour but one hit me in the side and i have a four inch scar. knives create mayhem on the streets of britain every day but the cps is soft on people carrying them for nefarious purposes. You cannot defend yourself properly against a knife, and if you have one around the house for self defence then be prepered to have it turned against you.

Never take a mag light to a knife fight , never take a knife to a gun fight, dont rely on catapults or air rifles to provide for you post shtf.
join your local clay pigeon club, they are very friendly and helpful and moreover, cheaper than you think.

If I wasn't utterly destroyed from work I would give a better reply, will tomorrow.

I assure you if some scumbag thinks he has any hope of "turning my knife on me" before I've punctured numerous vital organs or slashed major arteries / veins then you're living in a dream world. The hard part is stopping someone going nuts with a knife, but if I'm the aggressor with one then watch me work. Go and train in Silat / Kali for a year or two and then tell me your opinion. There are various workshops and courses around by well known instructors (Scott Babb, Libre Fighting) covering such aspects. It's only once you'd dedicated many many years, months, days, hours of your life to training you realise how utterly pathetic and ill-equipped the average person is when it comes to a physical confrontation.

There is no way some smack head would stand much of a chance of turning my knife on me, especially since I will be holding it and utilising it properly not like your average prisoner with a shank made out of a toothbrush doing this repetitive, linear, strike to the mid section over and over again. As you probably know from experience though defending is a lot harder but if you keep it real it's not impossible, try to gain control of the knife arm and sink your teeth in seems to work 70% of the time against a training partner going nuts.

Then again the people who have no training using or defending against edged weapons would probably endanger themselves since they won't have a clue what to do with it. My advice is go out and master your OWN body first and then after 5 years or so start looking into using extensions of your body offensively (knives, batons etc)

[TomW]

does anyone know how to go about researching local farms needing/willing to have shooting enthusiasts come and help with vermin control?

To be honest its not easy to get into. Youve pretty much got to prove yourself and get your name known. Its a lot easier when you can say "I shoot on farmer x's land and have noticed your suffering a lot of damage too. Could i come over and clear a few up for you sometime?".
Best way I can see is to go shooting with someone experienced, and go a lot. After a while see if you can get the landowners permission direct. It takes time, even once you've found someone who'll take you out. Expect to do a lot of driving with no lights first though lol As for the best way to meet people, go beating for some local shoots, sportsmen tend to stick together Alternatively its back to the clubs, shotgun as well as rifle.
Remember, you're asking someone to let you carry a dangerous weapon around in the dark, they're going to want to know you're safe.

Another alternative is to take a deer stalking qualification. As a number of people stalk on commercial estates its fairly impractical to get written permission for a specific tract of land. If this is your chosen route you can then branch into fox control.

Don't be disheartened, nothing worth doing is easy.

[Plymtom]

JamesMR wrote

Then again the people who have no training using or defending against edged weapons would probably endanger themselves since they won't have a clue what to do with it. My advice is go out and master your OWN body first and then after 5 years or so start looking into using extensions of your body offensively (knives, batons etc)

We're all into prepping here James and I love your commmitment to your interests, but honestly though I'm more like a Peter Kay than Chuck Norris, self defence through martial arts obviously sets you in a better position than most here I dare say, but to think most of the rest of us would have the resolve, capabillity at the ages and fitness levels we are at, to embark on a training program requiring the amount of commitment that statement sugests, is at least as out of balance as your probably realistic assesment of most of our chances as reagrds self defence in SHTF scenarios.

I want to live the rest of my life and have fun doing it, my chances of doing it whilst staying out of hospital are greater taking up clay pigeon shooting than martial arts, I want to encourage folk to be sensible, so having sensible reasons for owning sporting equipment, which rather like your hands and feet could give them an advantage over their current capabillities, I'm not knocking your interests or opinions here, I'm saying it's a case of courses for horses and that those who can would do well to follow your advice


Took me so long Tom had posted too, Cheers Tom that's all good stuff for knowing what we are up against

[JamesMR]

That's fair enough, but there are plenty of options even when you're into your 50s and above, not all arts are hard, least of all Silat as I mentioned. My grand father still studies the martial side of Tai Chi at the age of 86

[Lucky Jim]

Believe it or not, even the sale of blank-firing guns is restricted in Britain; look at the last sentence in this advert!


http://www.battleorders.co.uk/

PS- In my teens many years ago I bought a blank-firer much like the one above and loads of .22 blank rounds for it from a local gunshop in the midlands when anybody could buy one without any restrictions.
The barrel was solid so unfortunately the fiery blast couldn't come out the end and had to flare out sideways from the revolving chamber instead, but it still looked spectacular!
There were two kinds of blank shells you could buy for it, .22 short and .22 long; the shorts were no good, they were only a couple of millimetres long and made a wimpy crack like a cap pistol, so I always bought longs which were about 10 mm's long and had a blast like a cannon, the shock wave could jolt your internal organs, set off car alarms and rattle windows..
Eventually it wore out because it was made from ordinary non-hardened steel (like all blank-firers), the hammer and firing pin especially began looking mangled and the worse for wear, so I dumped it.
Incidentally it never crossed my mind to drill out the solid barrel try to convert it into a real bullet-firer because I knew the soft steel wouldn't be able to contain the blast and it'd blow up in my hand. I wouldn't have been allowed to buy live ammo for it anyway.
And even if blank-firers were easily available today, I don't think I'd want one because if you waved it at a burglar or anybody, they could kill you and claim they thought you were going to shoot them, and no jury would convict them..

[Lucky Jim]

Blank shotgun cartridges were another thing that anybody could buy from the local gunshop without restriction years ago, to use in burglar alarms. I've searched the net for pics of the alarms but they no longer seem to be on sale, and neither do blank shotgun shells.
I never had such an alarm but here's a diagram i've done; you stood it behind your door and it was linked to the door by a simple linkage and was triggered when an intruder opened the door an inch or two.
Basically a heavy weight slid down a metal rod under its own weight to strike the cartridge, and the blast was supposed to scare him off.

[tigs]

you mean blanks like these http://www.solware.co.uk/shotgun-access ... anks.shtml

and an alarm like this http://www.williampowell.com/Shooting-- ... _MA101.htm

[Lucky Jim]

you mean blanks like these http://www.solware.co.uk/shotgun-access ... anks.shtml

and an alarm like this http://www.williampowell.com/Shooting-- ... _MA101.htm

Aha..
By the way, in the olden days of the 1970's some people used blank shotgun shells to make small 'percussion bombs' like this to throw at any suspicious lurkers to scare them off, (not that i ever did anything like that myself, perish the thought).
All that was needed was a hard concrete area or wall of a house to ensure they detonated on impact. However, the bang wasn't all that impressive because they only contained a small amount of explosive, most of the cartridge was empty thin air, what a ripoff!
(The ballbearing was sellotaped to the percussion cap to add ballistic weight and ensure it hit nose-first, the shock of impact travelling up through the ball into the cap to set it off)

[Moony]

Believe it or not, even the sale of blank-firing guns is restricted in Britain; look at the last sentence in this advert!

If it looks like a gun police will always assume it is one. Thats why kids toy guns are bright colours and obviously plastic nowadays, no toy guns that look just like an M-16 at a distance like the one I had as a kid

If you want an un-restricted blank firing gun it must be either day glow two-tone colour or completely see-through (so the mechanism is visible). Spray painting your brightly coloured Blank firer will make it illegal !

This type of gun is restricted because so many illegally held handguns in this country are converted from blank firers or those realistic metal framed 'airsoft' guns that you can't get at all any more. The thugs that use them don't much care if they will blow up after a few shots. I might root around and see if I can find the statistics on police seizures, but I wouldn't be surprised if more illegal weapons are crappy conversions than 'real' guns that have been stolen or smuggled in.

Edit, info:
Firearms designed to discharge with self-contained air cartridges, such as those manufactured by Brocock, were made illegal in January 2004 under the provisions of the Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003. Owners of these weapons were compelled to surrender them or apply for a firearms certificate before May 2004. Figures supplied to the Home Office show that sales of these weapons prior to the new legislation were between 50,000 and 70,000, yet as of July 2004 only 8,300 had been certified or surrendered. There is recent evidence of these weapons being recovered following criminal use.

Converted firearms pose a major threat and as at December 2007, 43% of all lethal-barrelled firearms submitted to the Forensic Science service (FSS) since April 2003 were converted imitations.

Association of Chief Police Officers, 2007

So, IMO, there's good reason for that gun being restricted.