Thankyou for the information avit, DrZ and scoobie,
my local gunshop has a walther CP99 in stock, it looks like she will be the latest addition to the family.
http://www.gilderscountrysports.co.uk/v ... oduct=1821
the rifle can wait till christmas, but i'm thinking about getting this one. in .177
http://www.gilderscountrysports.co.uk/v ... oduct=1574
Air Rifles
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Pasty_pete
Re: Air Rifles
hi im new to this site and ive never posted befor so i hope im helping lol
i dont think you should kill any animal unless your going to eat it apart from vermin like rats and if you do dicide to get an air riffle you still need some were to shoot you have to get permistion off the land owner and stay within uk gun laws and remember you just cant walk down the road with a riffle under your arm a good think is insurance its cheap enough around £20 on line
i do a bit of shooting rabbit being my proffered game but if im not sure i can kill it or eat it then i leave it
before you get a gun think what do you want it for and that will help with your choice and any good gun shop will help you
i dont think you should kill any animal unless your going to eat it apart from vermin like rats and if you do dicide to get an air riffle you still need some were to shoot you have to get permistion off the land owner and stay within uk gun laws and remember you just cant walk down the road with a riffle under your arm a good think is insurance its cheap enough around £20 on line
i do a bit of shooting rabbit being my proffered game but if im not sure i can kill it or eat it then i leave it
before you get a gun think what do you want it for and that will help with your choice and any good gun shop will help you
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modplod
Re: Air Rifles
Don't be too in awe of advice from gun shops - many are shysters just after as much of your money as possible. I don't know of ONE gun shop in Kent that I would trust not to do this (and I have used most of them).
I have often tested their knowledge by referring to CZ rifles as BRNO's. It's amazing how many gun shops think that a brand new CZ 452 rifle is a BRNO! lol.
My advice for all readers is simple -
Get yourself a British or German made spring or gas ram airgun in any flavour (.22 or .177). If you look hard you will find it's easy to source good quality guns for around the £100 mark (private buys). Try not to buy from a gun shop because you will be charged an additional 33% for their mark-up (profit).
Often people tend to just recommend guns they own - this is unhelpful to newbies. What you want is someone to recommend the market leaders, what you happen to use yourself shouldn't come into it.
My top buys for preppers are:
1. BSA Lightning / Lightning XL (both versions are good buys).
2. BSA Supersport.
3. Any full power German made Winerack (forgot how to spell it) - HW35, HW80, HW90, HW97 etc.
4. Diana / Original sidelevers - Made in Germany and over-engineered (very expensive too).
5. Webley Exocet.
A mint condition BSA Lightning as a private buy should set you back no more than £150. A similar condition Winerack HW97 can be found for £250 ish.
Instead of buying a new Chinese made (inferior copy) - go for a secondhand British or German made gun.
I have often tested their knowledge by referring to CZ rifles as BRNO's. It's amazing how many gun shops think that a brand new CZ 452 rifle is a BRNO! lol.
My advice for all readers is simple -
Get yourself a British or German made spring or gas ram airgun in any flavour (.22 or .177). If you look hard you will find it's easy to source good quality guns for around the £100 mark (private buys). Try not to buy from a gun shop because you will be charged an additional 33% for their mark-up (profit).
Often people tend to just recommend guns they own - this is unhelpful to newbies. What you want is someone to recommend the market leaders, what you happen to use yourself shouldn't come into it.
My top buys for preppers are:
1. BSA Lightning / Lightning XL (both versions are good buys).
2. BSA Supersport.
3. Any full power German made Winerack (forgot how to spell it) - HW35, HW80, HW90, HW97 etc.
4. Diana / Original sidelevers - Made in Germany and over-engineered (very expensive too).
5. Webley Exocet.
A mint condition BSA Lightning as a private buy should set you back no more than £150. A similar condition Winerack HW97 can be found for £250 ish.
Instead of buying a new Chinese made (inferior copy) - go for a secondhand British or German made gun.
Last edited by modplod on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Triple_sod
Re: Air Rifles
That’s a bit of a broad assumption, I’ve been to plenty of gun shops that aren’t like that at all, although your right about going in with a fair idea what your after.
As for private sales though, I’d say they’re best avoided unless you know what you’re doing, or are dealing with a trusted friend.
Everyone loves a bargain but if it breaks after you’ve got it home, and the other bloke doesn’t want to know…you’re screwed.
I'd also be a bit wary of whether it’s been modified to fire above the legal limit.
As for private sales though, I’d say they’re best avoided unless you know what you’re doing, or are dealing with a trusted friend.
Everyone loves a bargain but if it breaks after you’ve got it home, and the other bloke doesn’t want to know…you’re screwed.
I'd also be a bit wary of whether it’s been modified to fire above the legal limit.
Re: Air Rifles
Surely if you own a rifle and found it to be very good you are likely to recommend it, I have had weinrauch rifles, I have had BSA rifles and Umarex rifles, Webley and scott pistols, BSA pistols over the last 40+ years.
I like my BSA rifle, I like my Umarex, I liked my Weinrauch rifle, but I like the ease of the magazines on my rifles so went for the PCP and the CO2 as they are quicker and quieter and in some cases lighter than the Weinrauch single shot springer rifle.
I bought a hand pump for the PCP, although it does have a 40 shot ability between charges, that is enough for me when out looking for small game/vermin and birds for the pot, many an evening I haven't fired a shot in anger, it was a good walk though
My CO2 rifle uses two 12g bulbettes for gas, and again this is ample to take one for the pot, I buy in bulk off the internet and find it reasonable to get a few hundred at least once a year. At £35 for 100 it isn't too bad. It also means that the family can use them easily as could I as I don't need a lot of strength to operate the mechanism.
Yes, springers are good, some better than others, but so are many others.
The mark up by gun shops is a business necessity unfortunately, but if my rifles breakdown I know where I can take it to get it fixed, if you buy a second hand rifle will you get the same?
I like my BSA rifle, I like my Umarex, I liked my Weinrauch rifle, but I like the ease of the magazines on my rifles so went for the PCP and the CO2 as they are quicker and quieter and in some cases lighter than the Weinrauch single shot springer rifle.
I bought a hand pump for the PCP, although it does have a 40 shot ability between charges, that is enough for me when out looking for small game/vermin and birds for the pot, many an evening I haven't fired a shot in anger, it was a good walk though
My CO2 rifle uses two 12g bulbettes for gas, and again this is ample to take one for the pot, I buy in bulk off the internet and find it reasonable to get a few hundred at least once a year. At £35 for 100 it isn't too bad. It also means that the family can use them easily as could I as I don't need a lot of strength to operate the mechanism.
Yes, springers are good, some better than others, but so are many others.
The mark up by gun shops is a business necessity unfortunately, but if my rifles breakdown I know where I can take it to get it fixed, if you buy a second hand rifle will you get the same?
Stop, Read, absorb, understand, reply.
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modplod
Re: Air Rifles
PCP's are NOT a good choice for preppers. They need constant re-charging and are twice as expensive in the long run. Until recently I had a Gunpower Stealth (the Chairman of Gunpower in Ashford is my mate). If you want an airgun for Field Target or Hunter Field Target (HFT) a PCP is the way to go as they tend to be the most accurate (with the right scope).
For those of you in Kent/E. Sussex I can recommend IDEN FERNS AIRGUN CLUB in Iden on the Kent/E. Sussex border. It's owned and run by my brother-in-law.
For preppers a good quality British/German made springer makes sense. Condition is the most important thing here - if it looks as though it's been looked after it is probably a safe private buy.
I stand by my assertion that most gun shops are there to take as much money off you as they can. It's obvious to me that many traders are oblivious to the Sales of Goods Act 1979 (as ammended), Sales & Supply of Goods Regulations 2000, Distance Selling Regulations 2000 (recently ammended).
It's fine to buy a gun from a trader but don't expect a bargain. My last bargain was a mint Webley Exocet from Gumtree for £75. A gun shop would sell this model for £150 plus.
You can pay upto £200 for a new Chinese SMK (inferior copy of a British gun) and a secondhand Brit/German airgun makes far more sense.
In my experience many gun shops are not staffed by trained gunsmiths. Many amateur airgunners possess the skills to fix their own airguns.
The best airguns to buy are the models which sell the most - BSA Lightning's etc. These guns are used extensively by professional pest controllers which speaks volumes.
For those of you in Kent/E. Sussex I can recommend IDEN FERNS AIRGUN CLUB in Iden on the Kent/E. Sussex border. It's owned and run by my brother-in-law.
For preppers a good quality British/German made springer makes sense. Condition is the most important thing here - if it looks as though it's been looked after it is probably a safe private buy.
I stand by my assertion that most gun shops are there to take as much money off you as they can. It's obvious to me that many traders are oblivious to the Sales of Goods Act 1979 (as ammended), Sales & Supply of Goods Regulations 2000, Distance Selling Regulations 2000 (recently ammended).
It's fine to buy a gun from a trader but don't expect a bargain. My last bargain was a mint Webley Exocet from Gumtree for £75. A gun shop would sell this model for £150 plus.
You can pay upto £200 for a new Chinese SMK (inferior copy of a British gun) and a secondhand Brit/German airgun makes far more sense.
In my experience many gun shops are not staffed by trained gunsmiths. Many amateur airgunners possess the skills to fix their own airguns.
The best airguns to buy are the models which sell the most - BSA Lightning's etc. These guns are used extensively by professional pest controllers which speaks volumes.
Last edited by modplod on Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Air Rifles
They might not be a good choice for some preppers, but this one is quite happy with his 
It doesn't need recharging that much in reality, unless using it for plinking, as mentioned I can empty 4 10 round magazines between charges, and that is a months meat if taking a rabbit a day. I guess it depends what is being prepped for, the likelyhood of the event etc etc.
Some might say forget a firearm altogether and go for a sling-shot or a stick and maybe a bit of snare wire.
My gunshop, well he is quite happy to take my money, but I usually get a good discount of between 10 and 20 percent on pretty much everything I buy, I even do a bit of trading with him now and then, and has been known to do things at cost if I have asked him to get it in, also willing to sell my used stuff for no commission, maybe he is a rare shopkeeper though
It doesn't need recharging that much in reality, unless using it for plinking, as mentioned I can empty 4 10 round magazines between charges, and that is a months meat if taking a rabbit a day. I guess it depends what is being prepped for, the likelyhood of the event etc etc.Some might say forget a firearm altogether and go for a sling-shot or a stick and maybe a bit of snare wire.
My gunshop, well he is quite happy to take my money, but I usually get a good discount of between 10 and 20 percent on pretty much everything I buy, I even do a bit of trading with him now and then, and has been known to do things at cost if I have asked him to get it in, also willing to sell my used stuff for no commission, maybe he is a rare shopkeeper though
Stop, Read, absorb, understand, reply.
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modplod
Re: Air Rifles
Don't take it so personally. I'm not saying that a PCP isn't a great hunting tool - it clearly is. 
I am only saying that for a prepper looking for a reliable nail when the SHTF a springer/gas ram makes more sense.
My brother-in-law beats me every time I go hunting with him. He uses a UK Legal PCP airgun (HW100) and I use live round (.22LR rimfire). He has a maximum hunting range of 40 yards and I have up to 120 yards but he still beats me!
I am only saying that for a prepper looking for a reliable nail when the SHTF a springer/gas ram makes more sense.
My brother-in-law beats me every time I go hunting with him. He uses a UK Legal PCP airgun (HW100) and I use live round (.22LR rimfire). He has a maximum hunting range of 40 yards and I have up to 120 yards but he still beats me!
Re: Air Rifles
I would go for a gas ram as a back-up over a springer, a lot of rifles are apparently going to gas rams as they can be left cocked for longer periods than springers without the adverse problems related to the springs.
I used a springer for many years both scoped and unscoped, and for the prey it was just as fatal, but I just cannot get the rate of fire I can get with a pcp.
I used a springer for many years both scoped and unscoped, and for the prey it was just as fatal, but I just cannot get the rate of fire I can get with a pcp.
Stop, Read, absorb, understand, reply.
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modplod
Re: Air Rifles
A GAS RAM airgun is indeed an excellent choice for preppers. It's main advantage over a springer (pointed out above) is that the gas ram does not suffer from memory effect once it's cocked and ready to fire. With a simple spring airgun it's not good practice to keep it cocked for any extended length of time. I should also point out here that it is very unsafe to store ANY airgun in a ready to fire state! 
Whatever you do, don't fit a .177 gas ram to a .22 airgun because it increases power level from sub 12 ft/lb to around 17 ft/lb instantly making it a section 1 firearm that can only be held on a FAC. I understand it's easily done because apart from the gam ram being much harder to cock, it looks exactly the same as a .22 gas ram (which is the reason it's so easy to make the mistake). 
I understand that a £30 gas ram conversion for BSA Supersport and BSA Lightning is pretty popular.
Whatever you do, don't fit a .177 gas ram to a .22 airgun because it increases power level from sub 12 ft/lb to around 17 ft/lb instantly making it a section 1 firearm that can only be held on a FAC. I understand it's easily done because apart from the gam ram being much harder to cock, it looks exactly the same as a .22 gas ram (which is the reason it's so easy to make the mistake).
I understand that a £30 gas ram conversion for BSA Supersport and BSA Lightning is pretty popular.