Bug In Considerations

[elvengate]

Hi All,

I know that the Bug out or Bug in question has been beat to death many times over.

Instead I would like to offer up some considerations on the topic of Bugging In that have come up in my thinking through how to manage if there is a situation.

I do not have good hard resolutions to the considerations or problems I am pointing out. If you have any thoughts then please do chip in.

Utility Supply -

We cannot assume that power, water and gas supplies will work flawlessly. This problem is a minor one in many ways. If it it is for a small period of time. Although there are a few ancillary impacts long term that might not have been discussed.

- Sewage - We have all thought about how we are going to deal with waste management. Although there are going to be some larger issues in these terms for some people. We live in an area that is a bit hilly and the house we rent is in a lowish area. Understanding that the waste system uses valves, pumps and gravity to move waste, we might just be in trouble. The term s**t runs down hill comes to mind. I suspect that after a not to long period, our position might not be a good place to wait things out. I suspect that the low lying areas of any urban area is going to have waste coming out of drains. Not in my opinion a good thing.

- Heat - We like many people live in a Victorian era structure. They were designed wonderfully for that era. The fireplaces and chimney system, when used would heat the whole house and even assist in heating the neighbors home. Unfortunately ours have been bricked up and to get them back in action in an emergency would be impractical. I am from the northern part of the states so am well used to having a large supply of firewood out back for winter heating. Due to how compact society is packed together in the UK. Understanding that trees in urban areas will go quickly in a situation. I am struggling to find a solid solution to keeping a family warm and healthy over a winter without utilities.

These are a few of the BIG issues that I have run up against in my mental exercises on prepping.

The american in me wants to Bug-out to a secluded woodland with portable semi-permanent housing and stay out of the way of the trouble. Yet I am realistic and understand that, while appropriate in many parts of the states. It is not as practical here.

Thanks

R

[madmedic]

water, gas, electricity have been covered lots and probably to death now..

sewage is a relatively easy one to find out about. find where the pumping stations are and if you flow into them. i am quite lucky here. there is pumping to get sewage up over the hill i am on. from here it is all down hill for then next 4 miles. there will be bits around the next pumping station that gets smelly but in general the system runs its self. lower laying and flatter citys/towns will have different problems. if you are country you could always make some sort of system for your self. a septic tank or reed filtration are cheap and work well.

heating is where i will suffer. im in a 1970's house. no fireplace no chimney. i do have an old wood burning stove in the shed and i have found a way to run the flume so that without too much work i can run it through some of the house. this would give us 1 warm room and a bit of heat in other places. next task is to the central heating via the back boiler. the down side is that although small scale testing is possible. i cannot fit the full system until SHTF, so most of my idea is more theory based..

it is also not just the American that wants to bug out to the woods.. i do too. just gets more complicated for schooling for the kids and the wife would prob moan quite a bit more.. at least my 12 year old step son is taking an interest in outdoor living..

[junmist]

I know loads have been said about solar panels for electric but how about solar heating even in winter you should get some heat out of them, I am not too up with it but I belive that it is not as complicated as solar electric and the companies now add a solar panel to run the pump off line so that it is a compleat self surfactant unit.
And don't worry its not just the Americans who want to head for the hills I have 2 bug in plans and 2 bug out plans though being a softy camping on the most part is out I want a nice comfy bed but I am a prepper so I even have a plan for that

[Arzosah]

The *idea* of bugging out is very attractive, even to the Brits! But yes, in this country, in the areas of highly concentrated population, it doesn't seem logical.

You're wondering about heating, and the need for a compact solution. Rocket stoves seem to be ideal to me - I've heard the phrase for ages, but only just realised what it means - because of the structure, there's a re-burn effect of the smoke, so they've very highly efficient - cooking with twigs instead of branches, so to speak

There's also an adaptation to make heating, rather than cooking, - check this page out http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp though it really takes over the room ...

[12mp82]

For heating you could create a hypocaust.

[short circuit]

Yes 12mp82 the romans had a rather advaced system of underfloor heating...suppose you could cobble something cheap up using empty food cans pot rivvited together run them under the back of house to front zig zaging them and boxing them in concret and build a pit at back and flu at front'
I think if your going to bug in like we are you also need a food growing system indoors as well as outside for food, air filtering water filtering...human pee watered down will feed toms and a few other plants, human poo can also be rotted down and used to grow food in the 70's in halifax a treatment plant made two pruducts from human waste They were, first, Organifax, and then a slightly different product, Yorkshire Bounty...plants loved it so did veg gardeners but the local near by stopped it been made because of the smell but on a small scale it could be controled better. bugging in means been abled to cover all aspects as you say inclueding filtering and reuseing water. fish and srimps could be farmed in a cupple of food grad 1000ltr barrels grow yeasts and pond weeds to feed chickens so much can be done its finding the time to get it all ready

[BristolDave]

**snip**

Utility Supply -

We cannot assume that power, water and gas supplies will work flawlessly. This problem is a minor one in many ways. If it it is for a small period of time. Although there are a few ancillary impacts long term that might not have been discussed.

- Sewage - We have all thought about how we are going to deal with waste management. Although there are going to be some larger issues in these terms for some people. We live in an area that is a bit hilly and the house we rent is in a lowish area. Understanding that the waste system uses valves, pumps and gravity to move waste, we might just be in trouble. The term s**t runs down hill comes to mind. I suspect that after a not to long period, our position might not be a good place to wait things out. I suspect that the low lying areas of any urban area is going to have waste coming out of drains. Not in my opinion a good thing.

- Heat - We like many people live in a Victorian era structure. They were designed wonderfully for that era. The fireplaces and chimney system, when used would heat the whole house and even assist in heating the neighbors home. Unfortunately ours have been bricked up and to get them back in action in an emergency would be impractical. I am from the northern part of the states so am well used to having a large supply of firewood out back for winter heating. Due to how compact society is packed together in the UK. Understanding that trees in urban areas will go quickly in a situation. I am struggling to find a solid solution to keeping a family warm and healthy over a winter without utilities.

R

Are the issues not the same for BI as for BO? How will you keep warm in the wild? Where will you 'go to the loo'? I would say that the solution is a lot more simple if you are bugging in to a reasonably well prepped house. You can have a 'decorative' pot belly stove installed for only a couple of hundred pounds that will heat a room very well and allow you to cook and heat water. As for the loo, well dig a hole in the garden or get a supply of plastic bags and a bucket. Line the bucket with a bag and once full (or maybe before then ) tie it off and throw it over your neighbors wall (only joking!).

BD

[elvengate]

A good deal of food for thought here.

As I said I do not have the answers at the moment.

Swapping the comfort of your current domicile for something more rough in a bug out plan does take a good amount of considered thought though.

A benefit of the bug out action is that you can be picky in terms of location. A acre of woodland will provide enough wood for the small wood stove you would have in a caravan or yurt. Thus the heating issue is handled pretty well.

With no external issues taken into account the personal waste management issue is solvable for both situations.

Where I come to a sticking point more than the rest of the issues, is in the external considerations. These are based upon being in an urban area.

1. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that the waste from domiciles at a higher elevation will be flowing out of the drain grate in the garden, flooding your garden with raw waste.

2. Any form of active heating carries a finite timeline, due to any stored or gather able local supply running out.

There are other items that should be on this list, yet these two are a bit of a brain teaser for me.

I think that I am resigned to the blended approach of response now really.

Bug-in for the storm with the ability and plans to allow for the ability to bug-out if needed.

Thanks all.

Didn't want to beat a dead horse bringing this up. Really this was a sounding board for my thoughts so that I could focus and work through my contingency plans.

[nickdutch]

For short term heating, ethanol is where my money is at. I got about 1 Gallon of home made so far and, although I also use it to cook on, I can always have some aside for room heating.

[TorNicho]

Fuel and heating wise, you could brew and distil your own alcohol.

Or there is solar/ground source. I'm in the process of buying a house, and I have a plan to DIY a ground source heating system powered by solar. (you're probably thinking "Eh? ?").

Ground source is a simple premise really:-

-Long water/antifreeze mix filled tubing loop run under the back garden and into the house or other,

-Pump to move the w/af mix around the tubing, doesn't have to flow fast,

-Heat Exchanger or transfer system. This can be done with a simple fridge or freezer compressor and an array of copper tubing, filled with refrigerant gas, 'interlacing' the w/af mix loop,

-The other side of the heat exchange goes into a water tank, which can be just hot water, or pumped around existing radiators.

-Solar array and battery bank powering the pump and compressor.

I may be making it sound overly simple, but the principals are correct. Just think of how your fridge works, it moves heat from the inside to the outside by compressing and decompressing gas. Now imagine the inside of the fridge is filled with tubing filled with and endless supply of heat (well 'not cold') from the ground.

I'm starting to confuse myself with all this now. It's all there in my head, and it'll work. May not be very efficient, but it'll work and for free.