Can anyone direct me to a resource for the sizing of S10 respirators? I have googled the usual and am frankly a bit confused.
Thanks
G
Respirator Advice Please
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the-gnole
Re: Respirator Advice Please
There are usually only four sizes to choose from, Size 1 is the largest, size 4 the smallest, So most start with a size 2 and work from there, But ask Ian, he was on the design team so might be able to assist with a more accurate account.
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Ian
Re: Respirator Advice Please
Forget the sizing, some people with large faces need the smaller size and vice versa. Just consider the sizing as different shapes not bigger or smaller.
You need the mask that fits and you really need it fitted by someone who knows and has the right kit. Banana oil is my favourite (there are others). Don a mask comfortably and the rest of your usual gear, run around a bit, jump up and down then wave the bottle of banana oil around. Can you smell it? yes = failure. Repeat with a different sized mask until you get one that works and fits well.
I know that is not what you want to hear but it is the correct answer. The 'block off the intake and suck' test only tests the fit of a distorted mask under abnormal conditions.
Don't forget that any mask does not give perfect protection, they all leak. Under adverse conditions, hot, sweaty, stubble, exercise, you may be getting 10% outside air with each breath (PF10) normal, quiet, best conditions perhaps PF50 i.e. 2% leakage.
I really can see no need for a civilian to use such a mask:
1. The threat is infinitesimally low, when are you ever going to be exposed to war gasses?
2. You must have it available 24/7
3. They cost money which could be better spent for more likely scenarios.
4. Going upstairs or a few yards crosswind will reduce the gas concentration more than a mask will if you sit in the cloud. RUN AWAY.
5. They really don't work that well.
6. They are uncomfortable.
If you really feel that you will be working for an hour or so in a war gas cloud in the next couple of years go and talk to a professional mask supplier and fitter and get a top quality full face Butyl industrial mask with the relevant cannisters, at least spares will be easily obtainable (war gasses penetrate Nitryl and especially Silicon as if it was not there)
Why do you want a mask? If it is just to pose or for paint-ball any size will work, just gut out the contents of a filter so you can breath easily.
You need the mask that fits and you really need it fitted by someone who knows and has the right kit. Banana oil is my favourite (there are others). Don a mask comfortably and the rest of your usual gear, run around a bit, jump up and down then wave the bottle of banana oil around. Can you smell it? yes = failure. Repeat with a different sized mask until you get one that works and fits well.
I know that is not what you want to hear but it is the correct answer. The 'block off the intake and suck' test only tests the fit of a distorted mask under abnormal conditions.
Don't forget that any mask does not give perfect protection, they all leak. Under adverse conditions, hot, sweaty, stubble, exercise, you may be getting 10% outside air with each breath (PF10) normal, quiet, best conditions perhaps PF50 i.e. 2% leakage.
I really can see no need for a civilian to use such a mask:
1. The threat is infinitesimally low, when are you ever going to be exposed to war gasses?
2. You must have it available 24/7
3. They cost money which could be better spent for more likely scenarios.
4. Going upstairs or a few yards crosswind will reduce the gas concentration more than a mask will if you sit in the cloud. RUN AWAY.
5. They really don't work that well.
6. They are uncomfortable.
If you really feel that you will be working for an hour or so in a war gas cloud in the next couple of years go and talk to a professional mask supplier and fitter and get a top quality full face Butyl industrial mask with the relevant cannisters, at least spares will be easily obtainable (war gasses penetrate Nitryl and especially Silicon as if it was not there)
Why do you want a mask? If it is just to pose or for paint-ball any size will work, just gut out the contents of a filter so you can breath easily.
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skippy
Re: Respirator Advice Please
Ian wrote:Forget the sizing, ................. *Snip*.................Why do you want a mask? If it is just to pose or for paint-ball any size will work, just gut out the contents of a filter so you can breath easily.
Excelent post Ian
Thanks
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Gledders
Re: Respirator Advice Please
Excellent advice Ian thank you. You have told me more in one message than I knew about the S10 when I was issued with one in the RAF.
As to why I want one. Really quite simple, and I suspect you may be able to further advise on the usefulness.
I work in one of the Emergency services in London now. I am concerned about the possibility of a dirty bomb and the particulates, more than I am the use of gas. Certainly in the run up to the Olympics at any rate. I should point out that I have no information on such an incident, if I did I am sure it would be dealt with at an official level and I would have been issued with something.
I commute by train and as such I take a bag with me each way. So storage is not a problem.
I basically am after the ability to protect my lungs as am assuming that the skin might give me a short term barrier.
Am I barking up the wrong tree, perhaps a facelet would be better?
Best
G
As to why I want one. Really quite simple, and I suspect you may be able to further advise on the usefulness.
I work in one of the Emergency services in London now. I am concerned about the possibility of a dirty bomb and the particulates, more than I am the use of gas. Certainly in the run up to the Olympics at any rate. I should point out that I have no information on such an incident, if I did I am sure it would be dealt with at an official level and I would have been issued with something.
I commute by train and as such I take a bag with me each way. So storage is not a problem.
I basically am after the ability to protect my lungs as am assuming that the skin might give me a short term barrier.
Am I barking up the wrong tree, perhaps a facelet would be better?
Best
G
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the-gnole
Re: Respirator Advice Please
I know it is a wiki link, but it is a very good starting point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_bomb
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_bomb
<snip>
Since a dirty bomb is unlikely to cause many deaths, many do not consider this to be a weapon of mass destruction.[3] Its purpose would presumably be to create psychological, not physical, harm through ignorance, mass panic, and terror. For this reason dirty bombs are sometimes called "weapons of mass disruption". Additionally, containment and decontamination of thousands of victims, as well as decontamination of the affected area might require considerable time and expense, rendering areas partly unusable and causing economic damage.
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Ian
Re: Respirator Advice Please
Ah that makes sense.
You need respiratory protection that is light, zero maintenance and always with you. I like the range of 3M products, they are consistently better than other manufacturers but a little more expensive and you might not find them near to you (but there is always the internet). They make a range of disposable fold flat half masks with P3 protection (an EU designation for filtering ability, look it up) with exhaust valves and comfortable rims which you could wear for many hours at a time. Items to Google for are: "3M 9332" and "3m 8835". Forget the Mouldex as they won't pack flat.
The exhaust valve is necessary so the mask remains dry and not too hot to wear. Any disposable face mask without a valve, such as surgical masks, are for the protection of those around you from droplets you breath out and are not designed to filter the air you breath in. They are also not nice to wear for very long, borrow one from somebody and wear it around the house making sure it fits around the nose etc. I bet you want to take it off after fifteen minutes or so.
Seal a couple of flat folded masks in a decent (1000 gauge+) plastic bag for daily carrying protection together with a couple of thinner bags and you will easily have 24 hours of protection as far as it goes. Remember no mask offers 100% protection. The thinner bags are for disposal as the mask will collect and concentrate any radioactive particles and thus will have to be disposed of carefully without cross contaminating anything else. This needs practising, removing and bagging the mask without touching. You will probably need to buy five or so masks, two to pack away, a couple for practice and a spare.
If you have the carrying space the reusable half masks with P3 filters are the Rolls-Royce solution. I have a suite of the 3M 7500 series masks which I personally feel are the 'crème de la crème' of such masks but I did not have to pay for them and there are perfectly adequate and cheaper masks available.
If there are radioactive particles flying about eye protection is also needed and should be the gas tight (over the glasses?) goggles, they are, of course, no good if ventilated as the particles get in. These goggles must be compatible with the mask of your choice, so both may be worn together, Try before you buy!
Gas tight goggles are truly awful to wear, they steam up, are hot and uncomfortable. You will learn to truly hate them after an hour or so.
I am still of the confirmed opinion that if exposed to any such threat the correct response is RUN AWAY. If your job warrants such protection you would have been given it and trained. Perhaps a couple of the fold flat disposables in an easily opened pocket so you can grab one and don it as you go might be a cautious persons prep, and you have a spare to give to a mate, but in reality a folded hankie, as seen during the Twin Towers fall, is probably enough to get you away to safety, leaving the area to those with the right kit (Full suits and scba) The hankie is there, always with you, you are familiar with its use and for the short term, say ten minutes, as good as you can get, just dispose of it carefully if it glows in the dark afterwards.
You need respiratory protection that is light, zero maintenance and always with you. I like the range of 3M products, they are consistently better than other manufacturers but a little more expensive and you might not find them near to you (but there is always the internet). They make a range of disposable fold flat half masks with P3 protection (an EU designation for filtering ability, look it up) with exhaust valves and comfortable rims which you could wear for many hours at a time. Items to Google for are: "3M 9332" and "3m 8835". Forget the Mouldex as they won't pack flat.
The exhaust valve is necessary so the mask remains dry and not too hot to wear. Any disposable face mask without a valve, such as surgical masks, are for the protection of those around you from droplets you breath out and are not designed to filter the air you breath in. They are also not nice to wear for very long, borrow one from somebody and wear it around the house making sure it fits around the nose etc. I bet you want to take it off after fifteen minutes or so.
Seal a couple of flat folded masks in a decent (1000 gauge+) plastic bag for daily carrying protection together with a couple of thinner bags and you will easily have 24 hours of protection as far as it goes. Remember no mask offers 100% protection. The thinner bags are for disposal as the mask will collect and concentrate any radioactive particles and thus will have to be disposed of carefully without cross contaminating anything else. This needs practising, removing and bagging the mask without touching. You will probably need to buy five or so masks, two to pack away, a couple for practice and a spare.
If you have the carrying space the reusable half masks with P3 filters are the Rolls-Royce solution. I have a suite of the 3M 7500 series masks which I personally feel are the 'crème de la crème' of such masks but I did not have to pay for them and there are perfectly adequate and cheaper masks available.
If there are radioactive particles flying about eye protection is also needed and should be the gas tight (over the glasses?) goggles, they are, of course, no good if ventilated as the particles get in. These goggles must be compatible with the mask of your choice, so both may be worn together, Try before you buy!
Gas tight goggles are truly awful to wear, they steam up, are hot and uncomfortable. You will learn to truly hate them after an hour or so.
I am still of the confirmed opinion that if exposed to any such threat the correct response is RUN AWAY. If your job warrants such protection you would have been given it and trained. Perhaps a couple of the fold flat disposables in an easily opened pocket so you can grab one and don it as you go might be a cautious persons prep, and you have a spare to give to a mate, but in reality a folded hankie, as seen during the Twin Towers fall, is probably enough to get you away to safety, leaving the area to those with the right kit (Full suits and scba) The hankie is there, always with you, you are familiar with its use and for the short term, say ten minutes, as good as you can get, just dispose of it carefully if it glows in the dark afterwards.
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TomW
Re: Respirator Advice Please
The other point is that mod filters are pretty scarce and I have yet to find any that are in date. There are a number of civilian filters that fit and would protect against the many likely threats but they're not cheap and for the duwnside of a full mask respirator the ones Ian mentions are the better choice. That said a full face respirator does remove the need for a seperate pair of goggles which I imagine are even more uncomfortable than the full face option. If your personal risk assessment says constant carry then the small half mask would be my choice but if its to keep at home jic then I'd go for a full face though not necessarily an s10 
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Attack Warning Red
Re: Respirator Advice Please
Gledders - I have a handful of masks, all unused from eBay. Most of them Soviet ones. I do the airtight/suction test and they all fit well IMO. No loss of suction when the hole is covered.
As for a decent filter, I bought mine from SurviveAll. It's a new, unused filter. I also have a bunch of S10 filters.
If there were an attack in London however, I'd wonder how long you could wear a mask for, before someone comes and rips it off you. You'd probably also get arrested for scaring members of the public. For those reasons, I now carry a bunch of good, 3M (FP3?) dust masks in my day pack. If anything does happen, I can always cover the mask with a scarf, or my Kefiyeh, so people can't see it.
As for a decent filter, I bought mine from SurviveAll. It's a new, unused filter. I also have a bunch of S10 filters.
If there were an attack in London however, I'd wonder how long you could wear a mask for, before someone comes and rips it off you. You'd probably also get arrested for scaring members of the public. For those reasons, I now carry a bunch of good, 3M (FP3?) dust masks in my day pack. If anything does happen, I can always cover the mask with a scarf, or my Kefiyeh, so people can't see it.
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preppingsu