I've been prepping for a while now, not to a huge extent but I do like to have the peace-of-mind in knowing that I have a 72-hour kit in my car at all times. But the other day, while reviewing some of the items in my bag I realized that I could potentially be breaking the law (which I want to avoid of course).
As part of my 72 hour kit which I keep in my car at ALL times, I keep a Gerber Prodigy fixed blade knife in its sheath, inside the bag. The bag is under the tray in the boot of the car so its not like its readily available to hurt someone - because that's not what its intended for. I also keep a small lock knife in the bag too, as both of these items could be of significant aid in an emergency. Just to confirm, these knifes are not intended for use as self-defense weapons, but rather as good survival knifes which I believe are a crucial part of any 72 hour bag.
But what I would like to ask you, am I breaking the law by having these in my bag (in the car)? And if so, would it really be a good idea to go without?
Thank you in advance
Yes you are breaking the law, but you will probably be ok as they need to find it first, and to do that they will need reasonable cause to search your vehicle and contents.
I'll see if I can find the wording on one of the other places I visit.
I bought it online quite some time ago actually, can't remember which site though. I was tempted by the LMF actually. I couldn't decide between the two so I guess it was a 50/50 Thanks for the link.
Carrying Knives in Public
The CJA 1988 mainly relates to carrying knives in public places, Section 139 being the most important.
"It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches." [CJA 1988 section 139(1)]
The phrase "good reason" is intended to allow for "common sense" possession of knives, so that it is legal to carry a knife if there is a bona fide reason to do so. Examples of bona fide reasons which have been accepted include: a knife required for ones trade (e.g. a chefs knife), as part of a national costume (e.g. a sgian dubh), or for religious reasons (e.g. a Sikh Kirpan).
In this case, public place is meant as anywhere accessible to the public, so for example a private campsite, which members of the public must book to use, is a public place. Also, knives should only be carried to and from and used at the location where they are needed. For example, leaving a knife in a car for use when you go fishing would be illegal. It should be taken back into the house each time you use the car (other than to go fishing). [1]
The special exception which exists in the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (s139) for folding knives (pocket knives) is another "common sense" measure accepting that some small knives are carried for general utility however even a folding pocket knife of less than 3" (76mm) may still be considered an offensive weapon if carried or used for that purpose. It was a long held common belief that a folding knife must be non-locking for this provision to apply.
A Crown Court case (Harris v DPP), ruled (case law). A lock knife for all legal purposes, is the same as a fixed blade knife. A folding pocket knife must be readily foldable at all times. If it has a mechanism that prevents folding, it's a lock knife (or for legal purposes, a fixed blade) The Court of Appeal (REGINA - v - DESMOND GARCIA DEEGAN 1998) upheld the Harris ruling stating that "folding was held to mean non-locking". No leave to appeal was granted.
Carrying Knives in Public
The CJA 1988 mainly relates to carrying knives in public places, Section 139 being the most important.
"It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches." [CJA 1988 section 139(1)]
The phrase "good reason" is intended to allow for "common sense" possession of knives, so that it is legal to carry a knife if there is a bona fide reason to do so. Examples of bona fide reasons which have been accepted include: a knife required for ones trade (e.g. a chefs knife), as part of a national costume (e.g. a sgian dubh), or for religious reasons (e.g. a Sikh Kirpan).
In this case, public place is meant as anywhere accessible to the public, so for example a private campsite, which members of the public must book to use, is a public place. Also, knives should only be carried to and from and used at the location where they are needed. For example, leaving a knife in a car for use when you go fishing would be illegal. It should be taken back into the house each time you use the car (other than to go fishing). [1]
The special exception which exists in the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (s139) for folding knives (pocket knives) is another "common sense" measure accepting that some small knives are carried for general utility however even a folding pocket knife of less than 3" (76mm) may still be considered an offensive weapon if carried or used for that purpose. It was a long held common belief that a folding knife must be non-locking for this provision to apply.
A Crown Court case (Harris v DPP), ruled (case law). A lock knife for all legal purposes, is the same as a fixed blade knife. A folding pocket knife must be readily foldable at all times. If it has a mechanism that prevents folding, it's a lock knife (or for legal purposes, a fixed blade) The Court of Appeal (REGINA - v - DESMOND GARCIA DEEGAN 1998) upheld the Harris ruling stating that "folding was held to mean non-locking". No leave to appeal was granted.
I see what you mean. Would having a 72-hour kit with a fixed blade knife inside it be a justified reason? I mean, I understand that you can't carry a knife around 'just in case' of going fishing; but the whole idea of a 72 hour kit is that it is always available at a moments notice? Thank you for the advice though, that's some good info
But why do you need a knife that big and of that type, a 3" folder is quite likely to be just as capable of doing the job in a 72hr kit, where are you going to be going that would justify a need for the knife you have linked?
Apart from that there are many much better knives available
But why do you need a knife that big and of that type, a 3" folder is quite likely to be just as capable of doing the job in a 72hr kit, where are you going to be going that would justify a need for the knife you have linked?
Apart from that there are many much better knives available
Good point, I think maybe its best I leave it out of the bag. I mean I'm sure there's a lot of people who are happy to run the risk, but I'd rather feel safe in knowing that I'm keeping everything legal. One less item is a small price to pay for freedom I guess
Unfortunately the system is against us, simple things can cause all sorts of problems, it also depends on attitude, both ours and the Polices'
Unfortunately it doesn't take much to get a record these days, and once you have one, even a police caution, for carrying an offensive weapon you are likely to have many other problems in your life.
I would be happy to carry a certain type of knife through the streets because of age and demeanour, but if I was 30 yrs younger and wore a hoody and baggy trousers I wouldn't.
Unfortunately the system is against us, simple things can cause all sorts of problems, it also depends on attitude, both ours and the Polices'
Unfortunately it doesn't take much to get a record these days, and once you have one, even a police caution, for carrying an offensive weapon you are likely to have many other problems in your life.
I would be happy to carry a certain type of knife through the streets because of age and demeanour, but if I was 30 yrs younger and wore a hoody and baggy trousers I wouldn't.
I'd say that's a good take on this,"nanny state" or "common sense" legal comes to mind, as a person who used tools incluing knives at work so often that I got used to thinking of them as simply that, I often look back and think of times when I have wandered around with a stanley knife or screwdriver in my pocket without realizing it was there after work, more so at lunchtimes thinking I was lucky, as has been said demeanour has alot to do with whether a police officer would take issue with a person carrying a knife or anything else in any other way than to caution them of the legallity of their action, to do any less would be neglecting their duty.
I have a strategy, it's not written in stone, nor can it be, this scenario has too many variables, everything about it depends on those variables, being specific is not possible.
Thanks for the link.
